pparaska Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Just thought I'd give you guys an update. Remember my crank and bearings were scored after an hour of running the engine in? I was wondering if the body shop guys ran the engine when I thought there was no oil in it. (I had disabled the starter and ignition and THOUGHT I'd drained the pan so it would not leak on their floor.) I was also wondering if a follow-up machining process left crap in the oil passages that got past the engine shop's cleaning and I never double checked and cleaned. Neither! I pulled the rear galley plugs out of the block and found flakey rust in the back inch or so of the walls of the galleys. What must have happened was either water (condesation) or hot tanking fluid sat in the back of the galleys while it sat on an engine stand for years while I worked on the car. If I had just run oil through the engine and prelubed it after I built it, this wouldn't have happened. So when I finally prelubed the engine after installing it, the flakey rust broke loose and went straight to the cam, main and then rod bearings, even before getting a chance to go through the no-bypass filter setup. Expensive and time consuming lessen. Boy, I feel stupid. I took all the oil plugs out and cleaned things up, and then I just had the cam bearings removed, the block hot tanked, and new cam bearings installed. Got it back Wednesday. Of course, I just ordered a bigger cam - can't leave well enough alone! (The CC 270 Solid Magnum cam was MILD - it will have a 274/280 Xtreme Solid flat tappet cam now). I have all the parts now to put it back together, and will start on it this weekend. Oh, and I ordered the Carter Street (4-6psi) electric pump to replace the old Holley Blue pump that was making WAY too much noise. I also got some isolators that Carter sells for mounting the thing. Oh, and I got a Pro-Comp Indash Speedo to match the rest or the gauges. Anyone interested in a stock 240Z speedo that reads all Zeros on the odometer? The rest of the car has made little headway in the time it's been back from the shop. Family life has kept me busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 So what...another 5 years maybe?? Just kidding. . At least you figured out the mystery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted October 12, 2001 Author Share Posted October 12, 2001 I expect to have the motor together in a few weeks. The shortblock should be together by Monday, but the heads (461's) are with a friend who's doing a mild bowl port to them. He's done many that have been flowed and did well, and he needed some cash, so I said what the hey, another 30 hp or so would be nice. My biggest dilemna with the engine is whether to put the Holley 300-36 Dual plane back on (supposedly good from idle-7000 rpm) or the Victor Jr. I got from Mike Kelly. My gut tells me that if it only gain 10hp at 6000rpm with the Vic Jr, but lose 15 ftlb of torque and some throttle response (especially with a slightly lopey cam) over the dual plane, the Dual plane should go on. But then I keep hearing that the Vic Jr is a great street manifold and works well down low. I guess I could try each, and run them at the track or use a G-tech (need to get one of those) to compare them. This morning, my 8 yr old son, who's NEVER shown any interest in cars or the Z asked when it would be finished. He wants to go to the drag strip with me and watch me run it. I think that was the biggest incentive to get out in the garage I've had in years! I think I'll get him out in the garage with me to show him how an engine goes together this weekend. But I plan on having the drivetrain back in the car in a month or two. I still have glass, interior, latch hardware, trim, bumpers, lights, etc. to install. Barring any unforseen holdups, I think an early Spring launch is easy. Then I'll get to work on my website - it needs a total makeover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 I admire your persistence! Either manifold choice will be fine. You may want the Victor JR. to knock off some of the low speed torque as traction is going to be a bear anyhow. I've run lots of different intakes and haven't really been able to ascertain a "seat of the pants" difference in any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Good to hear you're making progress Pete. For furture ref. most machine shops dont remove the galley plugs prior to hot tanking a block. The high dollar machine shops who have a reputation to protect will remove the galley plugs...but the average run of the mill machine shop wont remove them. Its always cheap insurance to take some engine block brushes to clean the orifices out w/hot water & soap. I have an old CC catalogue...what is the lift/LDA of your new cam of choice. Looking forward to reading your post about your first test drive! Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by pparaska: This morning, my 8 yr old son, who's NEVER shown any interest in cars or the Z asked when it would be finished. He wants to go to the drag strip with me and watch me run it. I think that was the biggest incentive to get out in the garage I've had in years! I think I'll get him out in the garage with me to show him how an engine goes together this weekend. That is totally cool, Pete! Wow, a silver lining to an expensive cloud...Glad it's looking up despite the setbacks I wish you the very best! Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 I admire you Pete for not giving up on your project. A lot of people would've been so frustrated they'd give up ! But when you're finished you'll have one of the nicest Z anywhere.... Its cool that your son is interested now... I've been introducing my three year old son to the world of cars... he came with me to the hybrid Z meet we had here in California. His aunts and uncles tried to get him interested in being a doctor by buying him a toy medical kit. But he's always out in the garage with me trying to work on the cars with his toy wrenches My 11 month old daughter has started playing with my son's Hot Wheels and can make motor sounds [ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: John Adkins ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted October 12, 2001 Author Share Posted October 12, 2001 Thanks John. For me this is a release, a hobby. If I screw something up (that's happened enough) or decide on a different path, it's more money and more time. Oh well, I could be golfing, I guess, but I have few interests outside of cars and family. I'm really looking forward to preaching to my son how an engine works, how it goes together... nah just kidding! I'm pretty psyched that he's interested and we can do something together that I like as well. Hmm. I just had an idea for a new kid's toy line: Plastic Engine Stand Plastic Engine Blocks, pistons, rods, heads, etc. Plastic Engine Hoist. All simple enough for a 3 year old to work on! Somehow I doubt Playskool will be interested... [ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: pparaska ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Pete, I'm cheering for you too! I want to soon hear that you've got her rebuilt and she runs like a bat out of hell!! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 Glad the mystery was solved Pete, I'm sure wondering if the body shop did this to you was aggravating - at least you know now! If you wind up needing to borrow a G-Tech I've got one. Funny but it's been used by friends more than it has been used by me! I think you'll find the Victor is a fine intake. I've been able to lug mine down as low as 1KRPM on the highway no problems but my cam is probably milder (shrug). Mike, do I need to drive by and rev the motor to really get you moving BTW - got my Rewarder headers. Will update that thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 A MINIATURE Z CAR, Expletives not included. (one that seems to be on jacks alot... )!!!!! Thats what you need with that idea Pete. Regards, Lone [ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: lonehdrider ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 you need to get out with your z car and dump the clutch for you ten years of hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 Jim, You're Killing me... I'm suffering from the same thing Pete is...Just from a different angle..I took the stepson out for a night ride twice now on Mountain bikes and He is SERIOUSLY Bitten. So I get a call at work saying "Can we ride tonight?" and what do you think I do? I have no more pride than when he clears a hard section of logs or a tasty but dangerous downhill... I'm creating a monster! Ah, but on the bright side I almost have control arms done and ready to ship (Waiting on the machinist) and I'm done with the current crop of TC Rods and front control arms AND I have most of my own suspension hung! I have to take pics and post them, but the semi flat back with the royal blue looks SWEET!!!!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted October 13, 2001 Author Share Posted October 13, 2001 Kevin, the cam is new and not in the 2000 catalog, but on a press release on their web site, and in their online CamSpec database: Comp Cams (XS274S-10, pn 12-677-4) 274/280 deg. adv. duration (236/240 deg @ 0.050") 0.510/0.501" lift, 110 deg. LSA, Extreme Solid Flat Tappet Cam Cam Specs (Note the spring PN is incorrect, should be 986-16) After much discussion with various experienced hotrodders, etc., and calls to the Camhelp line several times, I'm pretty well convinced this will be streetable. Several on the Camhelp line, and notably Jaime (what a sultry voice she has ) supposedly one of their best cam selectors, says this cam should work great with my setup and application (hot street), and not need a vacuum canister. They expect a 2200-6200 power band. (However the first one I talked to said to use a cam lower on the duration/lift.) You need to deduct 6-10 degrees of 0.050" duration from a solid cam's specs to get to comparable hyd. cam specs, so this should be darn near the magic 225@0.050 streetable max duration. Remember, it's really the intake closing point that dictates dynamic compression and low speed throttle response. I feel that the whole "duration@0.050" thing is overblown, because it does not take into account the newer fast opening ramps, and the earlier closings that they afford for similar "0.050" durations. IVC is a much better place to look, IMO. I was assured that a cruise rpm of 2100 in 5th would not lug, which was my primary streetability concern. It should lope at idle (I like that, actually!) but have decent low speed torque in the ranges I need (26" tire, 3.73:1 gears, Tremec TR-3550 5spd). Desktop Dyno is guessing 400+hp with my combo, but I'm guessing it's a bit optimistic. BTW, I never did hear from David Vizard. I had sent my usage info and CC info to him through his web site http://davidvizard.com , but I never heard back. Good thing they didn't process my CC number, as I've made my decision without them! This time, I left nothing to chance and pulled all the water and oil plugs out myself first, and the only parts left in the block were the cam bearings. They even put the easy-to-overlook plug in the vertical oil passage that goes down to the oil filter area, that makes sure oil gets filtered (seen through a hole next to the rear main bearing). This is a reputable performance engine shop. At my request, they left the plugs out, but probably decided to put that one in incase I missed it . I have the brush set and I will be going over the passages, etc. with a very close eye this time! Mike C, thanks for that info. I am starting to lean toward the Vic Jr. first. [ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: pparaska ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 There happens to be a plastic engine stand in the middle of my loung now. has a little engine with sounds and everything. Thing i cant understand is why my wife bought it. it the last thing that i thought she would steer the young fellow towards. Made buy little tikes. Vroom vroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted October 13, 2001 Author Share Posted October 13, 2001 So, I have no original ideas, huh!? I was trying to think of the name of that company. Are you pulling my leg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 Pete, Glad to hear that you and your son will be bonding in the garage. I know how much that means to you! Run the Vic Jr. so I can brag about how MY intake made it onto such a class ride! After I get the control arms out the door I'll be focusing FULL TIME on mine. Should have it back off the jack stands and on four wheels again within the next few days! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 I can only hope that my car curse doesn't rub off on my son. The way that I have chosen leads only to madness. Fer instance, my wife (whom I have infected with my madness as she is enamored of her cool but flawed Travelall) has been talking with me about the "3rd car" thing - The "transport appliance" - ie, toyo camry or volvo. It just kills me. I completely agree with her - reliable, cheap, dependable. And yet I have sick fantasies about a datsun 510 or a Chevolvo conversion or a 60s Chevy sedan. I mean $10K can get you a helluva snarfty project. (and that's the whole point/dilemma. I have no capacity to separate transportation from coolness/project vehicle!). There's a whole world of wonderment out there and all I can think about are cars!!! Not healthy. I wish more for my son. The fact that I'm planning to drop $3K and lots of time/effort on a racing go-kart for the boy when he's 10-11 and eligible for sanctioned events is just not going to help matters either. He's just as doomed as me.....no helping it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Locutus Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 My stepson is very intrested in cars as well. I wish I would have had him from when he was younger cause he is playing catch up trying to learn about all this and keep up with the kids of some of my friends. We hang around a dirt track down near where I grew up quite often and they have a class for 12+ to race in. They drive small 4cyl cars that are equiped with all the safety equipment. My son will be 12 just in time to start the next season and he is begging me to let him race. Even after he watched video of the race where I rolled my truck end over end he is still pysched about it. My wife says let him race, I am still torn as to whether he can control it or not. He also want me to teach him how to weld so he can help me on the Z. I think it would be a valuable tool especially if he starts racing. I don't know what age it is safe to teach him some of the things I do in the garage but he is intrested at least. Do yall think an 11 is to young to learn to weld? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted October 14, 2001 Share Posted October 14, 2001 You're never to young to learn a valuable skill. As long as he understands the safety issues that go along with it. I have been using power tools since I can remember, and I'm only 25(so I can still remember such things) I can remember when I was 9 or 10, pulling apart a 283 that dad had taken out of a '64 Impala. I didn't know anything about breaker bars, but I knew that if only my ratchet was longer the bolts would break loose so much easier(hmm, I know I saw a piece of pipe around here somewhere). Helping dad and my older brother pull engines and laying under cars to replace transmissions was tough for a kid at that age, but I quickly learned the tools and what "that thing" was(my brother to this day will ask me for "the thing" when refering to just about anything) Now I'm 25 and have rebuilt, restored, raced and bled on more cars than I can remember. Now I'm a welder/fabricator, and wish I had been doing it since I was kid. Growing up in a car family has been one of the best things in my life, Thanks Dad. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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