10k rebuild thoughts/brainstorm on a 81 280zx non turbo

[mrtang]

Good Evening everyone,

 

I purchased my 81 280zx about a month ago, It was wonderful driving around, the sound of the L28E is excellent! However two weeks of daily driving, the clutch pedal went limp. Now I always knew I wanted to spend some money to make it a beautiful daily driver, and good enough to slap down most challenges from younger hasty gentlemen or ladies. So, I admit that I am ignorant. To remedy that I decided to purchase Chilton, Haynes, Vizard on engine hp gains, and engine rebuilds. I also purchased dvds on engine rebuilding and engine swaps.

 

My options are vast, however my knowledge is very scrambled but I would very much appreciate your advice on this. I have been researching on all my spare time on the forum but the knowledge can be very scattered for me my skill level is zero.

 

So the details

 

Two routes the vq engine swap or 280ZX performance master engine rebuild, new carbs, perhaps the new garrett turbos, suspension/struts, brake upgrade, clutch upgrade, transmission re ring?

 

HP 250-400

http://www.racetep.com/xmasspecials.html#dat

 

Offer up any of your advice on what you would do with 10k to spare.

thanks.

Edited September 3, 2012 by mrtang

[BluDestiny]

With 10k I would:

 

Do all the suspension first:

Take all the current suspension out

Throw away the TC rods and then sand blast and coat the Front control arms, rear control arms and rear subframe

Buy S13 solid rear subframe bushings and go to a machine shop with your rear subframe and tell them to make them fit (turn down the inside)

Buy poly urethane front and rear control arm bushings

After you get the control arms are back install zerk fittings into the control arm joints

Buy the Techono toy tuning T/C rods

Get a set of Lighter rated Used S13 coilovers (the 6-7k range)

Have a shop adapt the front strut tubes

Buy an LSD for the rear (either a subie r180 or the 300zx r200 depending on what I had and how fast I wanted to put it together)

Install everything back in place, this should cost you around $3-4k depending on how hardcore you are. when I did it it cost me $2500 for everything minus the diff.

 

 

Then I'd get the silvermine front brake kit

Redo the rear brakes with better pads

Then buy some nice fitting rims and sticky tires

My wheel tire combo cost me $1100 so with brakes probably $1800

 

Then I'd focus on engine power:

Stock turbo compenents can all be had for like $700 (That's how much I've paid)

I'd make sure everything is in working order (rebuild turbo, have injectors cleaned, sandblast some parts etc..)$300

Then I'd get a fidanza flywheel and probably a spec stage 2+ clutch ( $600-700 for clutch and flywheel)

 

Put that all together and use a manual boost controller to up it to 10psi with an intercooler and slightly higher fuel pressure, turn back timing if needed.

 

You've spent like $7000 and you'd still have money to spare. Now this is assuming you're engine will handle it, but even if it can't I'd use the current engine in the car since you know it works, and then buy a junker for like $150 and have that rebuild at a shop which should run you $2000ish. costs have varied for me, a basic rebuild with stock components has cost me $1500 while another with forged pistons and boring and balancing cost me about $3000(on this rebuild I include the price of the pistons and the clutch flywheel combo).

[Krizkat]

Myself, being rather inexperienced, would ask, why do you need 400hp in a daily... but that's me... just for a daily driver, I like Bluedestinys idea, however, does it have AC? I live in Florida, and just pulled all my AC stuff out. THEN summer hit. Oops. A stock l28et is plenty enough to enjoy power wise. Suspension would be a definite upgrade. Stage 2clutch, lighter flywheel, suspension, stock Turbo swap(+intercoossler). Add boost. Add more. Blow motor. Rebuild. Add more goodies. Upgrade. Et cetera.

[FricFrac]

IMHO I would go with a 300RWHP build L28ET swap. That's a really fast car and one of the best bangs for the $$. If you start going beyond 400HP at the crank you need to start spending more serious money on the build.

 

Clevite main bearings (MS1106P)- $55

Clevite rod bearings (CB966P) - $26

ITM gasket set (09-00521) - $67

ARP head bolts (202-4206) - $150ish price has gone up on this part so you might want to shop around and see if you can get a better price. I found it for $135

ARP Rod bolts (202-6003) - $50

ITM Pistons (RY6134STD for NA - RY6140STD for Turbo - part number varies based on oversize) - $32 per piston/rings/wrist pins - excellent street performance piston - hypereutectic

 

If you want to upgrade the oil pump I recomend (based on a lot of research) the Melling M111 (as opposed to the M90) - $70 (great price at Northern Auto Parts!)

 

Northern Auto Parts has good pricing and carries all the above but they may need to order in the ITM pistons. Clarks Discount has good pricing as well.

 

For the head I would get it ported and polished and a valve job. Drop in an "A" grind NA cam and replace the valve springs if required. The P90A is a very good head and there isn't any real reason to go with bigger valves than you already have stock.

 

Port the turbo manifold. The stock log is a decent performer surprisingly enough. If you can find a euro spec turbo manifold it's even better. Good luck

 

The intake runners are ~55% the diameter of the intake valves. Hog out the intake runners as much as possible as this is one of the major restrictions on the L28E/ET setups. You can also run a 240SX throttle body which ups you to 60mm.

 

There is lots and lots of info on the rest of the turbo build but a couple of spoon fed quickies...

 

Intercooler - this stuff usually get's overlooked in most builds -> . A lot of people will get as big of a intercooler as they can stuff under the hood but that's typically not the best idea. Long end tanks/short runners reduce the presure drop/restriction. Increase the efficency of your turbo system is free horsepower. The heavier your intercooler (cast end tanks) typically the more thermal mass you have. That gives you the ability to remove heat for a longer period of time until you have to take the heat back out of the system. Ducting - you can greatly increase the efficiency of your intercooler by traping and directing the air through the intercooler itself. Sheet metal and electric fans can help accomplish this.

 

Turbo - lots of options. T3/T4 is a good go-to as well as the Holset from the 90's turbo diesels. The Holset has an impressive map and works well with the L28ET. If you've got $10K for your whole build I'd spend a chunk of that on the GT35R or even the GTX35R. Borg Warner has the EFR series which looks very nice but I don't think a lot of guys have experimented with it. Again make more HP with a more efficient system and the turbo is one of those places to retain efficency.

 

Exhaust - not much in the way of aftermarket so you'll likely have to get something fabed up. The less restriction on the outlet side of your turbo the quicker it can spool which means more HP under the curve. The stock downpipe is a huge choke and a sharp angle. Get at least a 2 1/2" mandrel bend even with the stock T3 - 3" if it works with a larger turbo setup. Wraping the manifold helps keep the heat (the same energy that drives the turbo) in the exhaust system. External wastegates and proper piping also increases efficiency especially if you are upgrading to a larger turbo. Electronically controlled wasted gates will also spool up faster as the waste gate isn't opened until required. A mechanical waste gate will start to partially open and increase the spool time on the turbo.

 

BOV - helps protect your turbo from stoping suddenly when you close the throttle. Consider recirc on the system as it will keep the turbo spooled up and can help with performance. Go Fast Bits (GFB) makes a device called the Turbo Fuse which IMHO is a cheap insurance policy. It turns your BOV into a pop off valve which the stock system uses.

 

ECU - an aftermarket ECU will let you tune the engine and squeeze as much potential as possible out of it. Mega Squirt is a popular bang for the buck but it requires some forthought as to how you will implement it. It's very doable and there is lots of info on the site here with regards to the Mega Squirt setup on the L28ET. A dyno tune is the way to go if it's HP your chasing. I think the MS is one of the best performance mods you can do even to a stock turbo setup and it grows with the entire system regardless of what performance mods you do.

 

Water/Methanol - something to consider....

 

Spark plugs - something that is often overlooked but can help prevent knock. Stick with the NGKs (BPRE) but you can go to a colder plug with a higher performing (eg hotter combustion chamber) L28ET....

 

 

 

BluDestiny makes a good point about the suspension. The FIRST mod I do to an S130 is the stock springs/struts replacement. The HPK255 is a good spring/strut combo for a reasonable price. If you want a little better I'd go with the Megan Street S13 coilovers and mod them to fit the car. The rears basically bolt in (swap the top hat so it's three bolt instead of the two bolt S13). For brakes on a street car I'd just change all the pads to KVRs and replace the brake lines with SS. You can get a kit from MSA or just order in the individual lines - Earls are the ones they use in the MSA kit and IIRC Northern Auto Parts sells them at a good price.

Edited September 3, 2012 by FricFrac

[mrtang]

Thank you for your detailed responses, I have just recieved 7 books from Amazon regarding the 280ZX. I am reading it and after im done in a week I will have the best idea on how I will approach this project.

 

BluDestiny, FricFrac; This is my plans so far.

 

Suspension upgrades on all rods and coils, tokiko hp, s13, front/rear bar and bushing kits

 

turbo gt35r,engine rebuild kit, exedy stage 1 clutch, fidanza flywheel, brake kit (?), I havent gotten far but will post pictures to begin of the engine bay clean out

 

Thanks!

[johnc]

Search this site and read up for about a month before making any decisions.

[cockerstar]

Search this site and read up for about a month before making any decisions.

 

This is an excellent suggestion.

Read the boards, look through previous builds, learn your options, learn from other's mistakes, etc.

[mrtang]

Gracias,

 

I am reading alot however the forum can be kind of all over the place but good nevertheless. I am working through all my 280zx books before i make any decision

[roger280zx]

First of all a limp clutch pedal does not a rebuild make Put a slave cyl or master cyl in there and keep driving her. If you still have the desire to spend your 10k buy my car. Haha, now seriously. All of the above are good answers, and I'll have to agree with BlueDestiny. Unless your only concern is drag/street racing 300hp in a properly suspended and lightend car is better than a stock flimsy 280zx with 400hp. My sugestion; suspension, wheels/tires, clutch/flywheel, lsd, bolt-ons,stand alone,$$$TUNE$$$, spend the remainder on track days and tires. I'd do the engine when something breaks, but that is just me.

[mrtang]

Here s some pictures as I attempt the master and slave cylinder.

 

8 hrs into removing the cylinders I realize wtf.... Is this a turbo??

 

No paperwork, but the hardware suggest so.

 

But the car doesnt seem that fast!??? so im really scratching my head

[mrtang]

Is there a difference between the master and slave cylinder for non turbo vs turbo models?? and what do i do if stripped the clutch line?

[Stukinit]

your ZX looks in pretty rough condition, rust etc.

 

Looks like someone put on an uncoated header (and left it to rot) and no, that isn't a turbo (although I can't tell if you're referring to the injector blower motor or the A/C compressor?)

 

Honestly that ZX deserves a bit of TLC before even looking into perf upgrades, if the rest of the car is as corroded as the bay/engine (looks like it sat a while or was just neglected) then I would seriously worry more about rust in important places (frame rails, mounts etc.) than adding power.

[Gollum]

Man these threads are getting painful to read, or is that just my jet lag?

 

Fix  the master cylinder, and then worry about getting the car in good mechanical shape. Fix any and all rust issues. Make it handle well. Make it stop well. Then worry about power.

 

Even the T-Top S130 can weight as little as 2700 lbs in full trim, so 400hp is extremely overkill. If you just want to lay the smack down on most cars you'll ever come across, 300whp is MORE than enough. And remember, 300whp is around 350-360 at the crank. At 2700 lbs that's 7.5 lbs per HP. Can you tell me how many cars have that good of a power to weight ratio that are in production right now?

 

Not the subaru STI.

Not the Mustang GT

Not the Comaro 

Not any honda ever made... (until the next nsx is out... still waiting.... and waiting....)

 

The 2013 C6 corvette is 7.46 - the difference is more in the driver by that point

 

In other words, you need to spend a good 50k+ to get even the CHEAPEST new car to that performance level, and it won't cost you 10k.

 

But what you save in cash, you'll spend in time, PERIOD. And it sounds like you have a lot of learning to do, but you're at least aware of that and doing what you know to do in order to learn more. Good job. Keep at it.

 

Like john said though, don't make a decision for a while.