JCan Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Leon. The rear crank oil gasket should fit snug into the block along the outside of the gasket. The inner portion of the gasket has to make a seal on the crank, however because centrifugal force will cause most of the oil to spin away from the gasket, I believe it does not have to be too tight of a seal. Having said that, you can purchase a new rear oil seal for 4.89 plus shipping from Rock Auto. If you are not comfortable with the seal, get a second and see what happens. Good Luck! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Leon. The rear crank oil gasket should fit snug into the block along the outside of the gasket. The inner portion of the gasket has to make a seal on the crank, however because centrifugal force will cause most of the oil to spin away from the gasket, I believe it does not have to be too tight of a seal. Having said that, you can purchase a new rear oil seal for 4.89 plus shipping from Rock Auto. If you are not comfortable with the seal, get a second and see what happens. Good Luck! Jim Thanks Jim! I actually ordered a new one from Rockauto yesterday, along with the front crank seal and a new oil pump. I figured that I don't have much time to refurbish the old pump. I'll be working on the head in the meantime and I've got the next couple of weekends freed up for car work. It's crunch time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCan Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) I am sure you know about priming the oil pump prior to first starting the engine, I also expect there is a fancy way to do it that I do not know of... the way we (my brother and I) do it, is messy and time consuming, however it works. I will diagram it here. Once the engine is in the car, and you are nearing starting it, you can remove the oil pump and remove the spindle that turns it. before you do, be sure it is at top dead center, or remove the distributor and mark the spindle location (so that you can reinstall it). Go to home depot and purchase 5/8 inch nylon rod about 3' long. On one end, shape it to look like the spindle rod you just removed. Next remove the distributor and insert the rod through the distributor hole and into the oil pump. It is time to add oil to your car. for good measure, we pour one quart into the front cover (attempting to get oil into the oil pump via gravity). Once the car has oil, you can turn on your ignition and look at the oil pressure indicator. Connect a variable speed drill to the nylon rod and (I think you have to set it to reverse) turn on the drill slowly and watch for oil to emerge out your cam lobes (or oil gallery if you have an earlier z). Once it comes out of the lobes, check the gauge and vary the speed to ensure your gauge is working properly. once complete, remove the oil pump (yes oil will leak all over), reinstall the spindle, reinstall the distributor and you are ready to start the engine. AFter you start your engine, be sure to replace your filter and oil after you have run it for 30 -60 minutes. your engine is full of all sorts of junk from machining and reworking. you will be amazed at how bad it looks! Good luck! Do you think the car will be running by JCCS? I hope to see you there! Edited August 3, 2013 by JCan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Thanks again Jim, I appreciate all the thoughts! Oil priming is something that's been a big concern of mine so I've been reading up and studying for a while. I'll of course fill and prime the pump, but I've been trying to come up with a method to prime the engine without having to turn the pump. I've read of people back-filling the pump from the entrance orifice to the oil filter (oil filter removed obviously ), but that just fills in the gallery between the pump and oil filter. I also think I remember reading of someone (Tony D?) using the oil pressure sender hole to pressurize the system and get oil flowing that way. I don't remember exactly, but I'll be doing some more research on it. I was just thinking of this the other day, is there anything stopping me from just putting a hose over the oil filter nipple and using a hand pump to force-feed the oil into the mains, and maybe the head if I'm strong enough? It would go like this: fill and prime the pump (maybe try to prime pump inlet before install), install pump, back-fill the pump, pre-oil filter, fill galleries through filter nipple, install filter, crank engine until I see oil pressure and oil at the head. Anything wrong with that plan? I did put in about 15-20 hours of work on the engine this weekend. Saturday was a shorter day. I doubled-checked my mic measurements with a plastigage across all the mains. Clearances are good. I then finally lubed and installed the crank along with the rear main. Saturday night was finished off with a dog walk and dinner with my fiancee and my sister. Sunday was the big day, woke up at 6:30am and went to sleep at 12am. There were breaks in between, such as spending 2 hours with a buddy doing the drive belts on his Xterra and hanging out with him. Of course, that evening we also had to watch the latest episode of Dexter, and since we don't get that channel we go the future in-laws' place to watch. It was a productive, albeit very long, day and I definitely have to thank my fiancee, Melissa, for spoon-feeding me dinner while I was installing pistons. Yes, that's why I'm marrying her! Too bad I don't have photos of that, would've been priceless... I started the morning with gapping piston rings. That took a long time. Once they were gapped, I went out to the local store, got me some piston ring expanders, and went at it. Then I installed the rings, oriented them, and plopped them into their bores. Doesn't sound like that much work does it? But damn, it's enough to cover about 14 hours! I was trying to be very clean and meticulous with each step. In the end I was happy with the progress, given it's the first time I'm fully rebuilding an engine. It was satisfying to see it kind-of looking like an engine again. Well, at the very least there's less parts lying around... Lined up and ready to go! Ooh, ahh! And as bonus footage, are some cleaned-up parts! Untouched ports... And I'm in the final stages of finishing up the tail lights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Do you think the car will be running by JCCS? I hope to see you there! As to this question, the plan was to have the car ready for my wedding on 8/31 so it better be running by JCCS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCan Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Leon. The motor looks great! Regarding the alternative methods of priming the oil. I like the idea of pumping (under slight pressure) oil into the block through the pressure gauge. This method does prime the oil pump and will fill the oil filter with oil, but it does not flush the engine and filter the foreign debree out of the oil inside the oil pan. We are talking about esoteric issues. No matter what you decide to do, your motor will start up and run great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) Remember me the time I did mine it took me around 60-80hrs to make the engine right (including removing pistons from fully assembled engine because pistons to head clearance was not good to me). Regarding priming, I just filled the pump with oil prior to install it. Lube every contact during assembly. Before firing up the engine for the first time, I've run it without spark plugs until I see oil coming out of cam lobes by looking from oil cap hole. By doing so, engine is running at 60 rpm (slowly) for 10-15s, I don't think it should hurt anything (despites debate we've got on the board ). Edited August 6, 2013 by Lazeum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Leon. The motor looks great! Regarding the alternative methods of priming the oil. I like the idea of pumping (under slight pressure) oil into the block through the pressure gauge. This method does prime the oil pump and will fill the oil filter with oil, but it does not flush the engine and filter the foreign debree out of the oil inside the oil pan. We are talking about esoteric issues. No matter what you decide to do, your motor will start up and run great! Thanks! It's taken way too long to get to this point. DAMN YOU procrastination! I think I'm just being overly cautious, if not paranoid about priming and initial lubrication. Remember me the time I did mine it took me around 60-80hrs to make the engine right (including removing pistons from fully assembled engine because pistons to head clearance was not good to me). Regarding priming, I just filled the pump with oil prior to install it. Lube every contact during assembly. Before firing up the engine for the first time, I've run it without spark plugs until I see oil coming out of cam lobes by looking from oil cap hole. By doing so, engine is running at 60 rpm (slowly) for 10-15s, I don't think it should hurt anything (despites debate we've got on the board ). Yes, I do remember that, and what a pain it was! Plus, the screw up by your machinist was just a dagger in the heart. I'm very much hoping my progress to be a bit smoother! The priming method you shared seems most common. Like I told Jim, I'm just being overly cautious. I'd like to see oil flowing before even cranking over the engine, especially to the cam as it has high lift (.540") and uses stiffer springs. I'll probably take one of my hand pumps I use to fill transmissions and diffs, and try to pump some oil into the galleries. In other news, I finished installing my taillights yesterday. As far as non-engine stuff goes, I need to install the radio, re-connect some wiring, install console, and trim the studs protruding from my upper strut mounts. There is interference between the stud and hood. The hood cable also seems to need an adjustment as well, it has too much slack. I still need to do a brake check (PO said one of the fittings leaks) and clean up the engine bay prior to dropping in the engine. Then there's painting a few more parts, like the oil pan, valve cover, and transmission. The head still needs to be assembled and wipe patterns checked. That will probably take a day on its own. Lots to do still! Speaking of building the head, how did you guys position the head when installing the cam? I'm wary about putting it down on its deck surface, but that orientation seems easiest for reinstalling cam towers and the camshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 On the priming - couldn't you leave the valve lash as loose as it can be, or remove the rocker arms, and spin the engine to flush the passages and confirm flow to all lobes, or spray-bar holes? I don't know how loose lash would be with the adjustment backed all the way off, but if it can be loose enough not to open the valve, it might be worth doing. Or removing the rocker arms might be worth the effort and not super difficult. Spinning everything but with no valves opening and closing, no pressure on the cam lobes. Just thinking. The oil will still drain down past the main bearings while you set lash for start-up. But at least the pump will be full and flow confirmed, and any grit or swarf will flush out without seeing the cam lobe/rocker arm interface under pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 My build was not so smooth but the outcome is great. I cannot be happier so far My machinist screwed up stuffs but every dimension they machined is spot on. At the end, engine is perfect. Regarding head, you should have some clearance below the head. Some valve will extend below head surface. 2 pieces of wood should do the trick to lift the head up on your work bench. You need roughly need 1in, so some 4"x4" should be good. As long as material you choose is less hard than head material, you're good. Regarding oil pan, make sure bolt holes are not curved. Gasket surface on mine was not flat at all (bolts have been overtightened), so it is the right time to make it flat again. I'm lacking technical vocabulary here but I've reproduced what body shops do to remove dings with one steel piece on the back of the pan & one hammer to flatten things out. Priming is important but flushing the system after the first start was an absolute need on my side. I've been using paper towels to clean the engine each time it was necessary (as many books are telling it). When I disassembled oil pan to control everything, oil pick up was partially clogged with very little pieces of paper tower (invisible while being oil wet against block during assembly), despite being super careful, there was a lot of metal chips also on the bottom of the pan. After first oil change (oil was used only to run the engine until it became hot - after 5-10 minutes run), I've checked oil pan, no more debris has been found - so it was only because of rebuild. Last lesson learned from my build, I did not check transmission o'ring while engine was away and it leaked after reinstallation such a pain to do now while it should have been a piece of cake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) On the priming - couldn't you leave the valve lash as loose as it can be, or remove the rocker arms, and spin the engine to flush the passages and confirm flow to all lobes, or spray-bar holes? I don't know how loose lash would be with the adjustment backed all the way off, but if it can be loose enough not to open the valve, it might be worth doing. Or removing the rocker arms might be worth the effort and not super difficult. Spinning everything but with no valves opening and closing, no pressure on the cam lobes. Just thinking. The oil will still drain down past the main bearings while you set lash for start-up. But at least the pump will be full and flow confirmed, and any grit or swarf will flush out without seeing the cam lobe/rocker arm interface under pressure. You know, that's a great idea! I'll only be temporarily installing rockers to check the wipe pattern anyway so I may as well not install them until the engine is ready to fire. Thanks! My build was not so smooth but the outcome is great. I cannot be happier so far My machinist screwed up stuffs but every dimension they machined is spot on. At the end, engine is perfect. Regarding head, you should have some clearance below the head. Some valve will extend below head surface. 2 pieces of wood should do the trick to lift the head up on your work bench. You need roughly need 1in, so some 4"x4" should be good. As long as material you choose is less hard than head material, you're good. Regarding oil pan, make sure bolt holes are not curved. Gasket surface on mine was not flat at all (bolts have been overtightened), so it is the right time to make it flat again. I'm lacking technical vocabulary here but I've reproduced what body shops do to remove dings with one steel piece on the back of the pan & one hammer to flatten things out. Priming is important but flushing the system after the first start was an absolute need on my side. I've been using paper towels to clean the engine each time it was necessary (as many books are telling it). When I disassembled oil pan to control everything, oil pick up was partially clogged with very little pieces of paper tower (invisible while being oil wet against block during assembly), despite being super careful, there was a lot of metal chips also on the bottom of the pan. After first oil change (oil was used only to run the engine until it became hot - after 5-10 minutes run), I've checked oil pan, no more debris has been found - so it was only because of rebuild. Last lesson learned from my build, I did not check transmission o'ring while engine was away and it leaked after reinstallation such a pain to do now while it should have been a piece of cake... Wood was the plan, thanks for the affirmation there! Maybe I'll even set some microfiber towels down on the wood, ha! Yes, the oil pan is a concern of mine. I have two and so far I've checked one of them. Indeed the mating surface was not flat. I'll check the other pan in my inventory before proceeding. Thanks for bringing that up and good idea on the straightening! I'll flush the engine after I run it, definitely. I work at an injection molding facility and I've cleaned a few of our molds. I tried to take the same measures when cleaning the engine as I do with the molds, including using toilet paper and solvent for wipe downs. I cleaned until there were no traces of any sort of buildup on the TP. I'm sure I'll find all sorts of crap in the break-in oil, regardless. Which transmission o-ring do you speak of, the speedo gear seal? Edited August 7, 2013 by Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Actually, it is not really an o'ring. I'm talking about the seal behind the clutch to avoid transmission fluid to leak towards clutch mechanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 Actually, it is not really an o'ring. I'm talking about the seal behind the clutch to avoid transmission fluid to leak towards clutch mechanism. Gotcha, I was thinking that might have been what you meant! I'll think about doing tranny seals but at this point I need the car on the road ASAP. Not that I want to cut corners, but I may be dropping the tranny later anyway if the OEM 225mm clutch doesn't hold up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 After looking at it, the procedure shouldn't be very hard. Of course, whenever I say that some stupid little thing goes wrong... The toughest part of the job looks to be extracting and installing the seal. I will try to get to it if time allows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Not that I want to cut corners, but I may be dropping the tranny later anyway if the OEM 225mm clutch doesn't hold up. It's funny because this is exactly what I think also now while I drive the car: "hopefully the 225mm clutch will hold up" It was in good shape (= almost new) so I kept it but not sure how long it will last... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 It's funny because this is exactly what I think also now while I drive the car: "hopefully the 225mm clutch will hold up" It was in good shape (= almost new) so I kept it but not sure how long it will last... Nice! I wasn't sure how many guys were running an OEM 225mm with a hotter L28. Is it holding up so far, i.e. no slipping? No need for an expensive "brand-name" clutch if my car doesn't call for it, is my thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 So far so good I've only done around 1000mi since rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 So far so good I've only done around 1000mi since rebuild. Awesome, that's reassuring. Thanks Matt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) It is actually bouncy during start or very light trottle/very low speed (springs on friction disk too soft?) but it is holding up fine in 5th gear at WOT on highways. Quite frankly, I expect the clutch to be the next thing to fail on my setup (I better start saving $$$ !) I'll probably go for Fidanza flywheel + ACT clutch. I had good luck with such combo on my Evo in the past. Edited August 10, 2013 by Lazeum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 It is actually bouncy during start or very light trottle/very low speed (springs on friction disk too soft?) but it is holding up fine in 5th gear at WOT on highways. Quite frankly, I expect the clutch to be the next thing to fail on my setup (I better start saving $$$ !) I'll probably go for Fidanza flywheel + ACT clutch. I had good luck with such combo on my Evo in the past. Well at least it stands up to WOT in 5th, that's the important bit. Maybe the bounciness is due to throttle modulation (touchy throttle)? My combo on this engine will be a 10lb Fidanza with the stock clutch. I'll do as you have and test the limits of the stocker before dropping dough on a fancy setup. Besides, I don't imagine my engine being as high performing as yours (no port work and ZX distributor for now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.