I need opinions on job searches?

[DatsunKing1]

Hey guys!

 

I'm Jordan, I'm 21, an Aerospace Engineering student, and I'm looking for some good jobs for the summer. Good meaning skillset good, not money. My parents are going through a divorce, and I'm the only one that knows cars well enough to be any use besides my dad, who will no longer be around. I want to learn everything I can for my own good. People are becoming less mechanically inclined, they just give it to someone else to fix. I want to know what I'm doing, and how things work. Money doesn't really mean s*** to me, I'll be graduating next year, and I think mechanical and repair skills will help me tremendously in my field

 

I've looked up some local garages in my area (Cranberry, PA) and I'm wondering if they'd even take me. I'm going to go around and ask tomorrow regardless, but I want to know if I'm approaching this correctly (if any of you are mechanics) I want to learn mechanical repair, rebuilds, troubleshooting etc. I'm not really into auto body, but if the opportunity presents itself I'll learn whatever I can. I guess I'm just going to walk in and ask for anything they can give me. Should I ask pep boys too?

 

I'm by NO means super advanced (or even advanced), but I'm very eager, and a quick learner.

 

I'm just wondering if a mechanic would be willing to take me 'under his wing' so to speak. I won't get in their way, and I'll sweep the floors if it means learning anything about cars. I don't have any technical 'degree' or certification. I'm not sure if that means I'm barking up the wrong tree.

 

help me out!

thanks!

Jordan

[T-Bone028]

While I appreciate your desire to learn, I would highly recommend looking for a job that will give you experience that will directly translate to your future career choice. I.e if you want to work for acme aerospace company, try to find a summer job that is as close to 100% applicable as you can find. Save the automotive know how and learning for the weekends.

 

With that being said, if you really want to pursue work at a garage, you may not get much more than oil changes and the like for at least 2-3 months. I also would be doubtful that a garage would want a short-term mechanics apprentice. If you have a family friend that has a project, I think that's your best bet for learning.

 

Sorry if I sound like Debbie downer, but the older you get and the more money you make, you will always wish you ha a little bit more.

Edited May 7, 2013 by T-Bone028

[clarkspeed]

I agree. Get a job in your field. Will make your next job a step higher. If you want to work on cars, volunteer for an amateur race team (SCCA, circle track, whatever) and spend your nights and weekends learning.

[ctc]

As an AE with almost 20 years in field, I agree with clarkspeed. The job market is super tough right now. Aerospace job market is contracting and my company will hardly talk to anyone without experience. No experience, you better have really good references and or a personal contact. We just turned down an interview with a student who spent his summer building race trucks. Great skills, but no aerodynamic or CAD experience equals no interview. Harsh, but thems the breaks. We have one opening for every ten college grads we get resumes from.

 

Just a data point, for what it's worth.

[DatsunKing1]

I guess I should have mentioned that. I already did apply for internships and summer employment. I either have to be contracted to work with the company (they don't want me giving away their technology) or they weren't hiring to begin with. Yes, the job market is s*** nowadays, especially for Aerospace. Even worse, the people that DID get hired in my class don't have the intuition or skill set to really make a difference, for those doing the hiring, (like ctc) I feel bad for you. They can answer book problems but don't understand how the simpliest piece of machinery works, then they're expected to help build a plane/rocket? It's disgusting really. I guess I also should have mentioned I'll sweep floors or flip burgers before I'm stuck in a lab drawing BS parts like a bolt for a seat in a 747. That may sound audacious but that's not how I want to spend my life. I'm very very good with people, being in a lab would be a punishment.

 

The thing I don't understand is that so many companies won't even look at you unless you have 5 years of experience in the field...how are we supposed to be hired if we CAN'T be hired. FML.

 

Don't apologize for being honest guys LOL I'm the type that doesn't have a fear of failure...or sense of risk. If I want something I just go get it.

 

thanks for the input though, good to hear from people in the field

Edited May 7, 2013 by DatsunKing1

[T-Bone028]

Before you dismiss working in a office doing CAD all day, every step in life is just that. A step. Working for a company that does stuff you want to do, and starting out doing something you dont want to do, is a good start. Degrees, certifications, and internships don't mean anything. They are all just another step closer to getting your foot in the door. Once your inside, you'll realize there's a whole lot of doors left to open and you can make latteral changes towards your desired career.

 

Your willing to sweep floors at a garage in hopes of learning something useful....same thing applies to an entry-level job in your industry.

[Jon 74 260Z]

Disclaimer:  I'm a EE, not an AE, so you can decide how much of what I say is applicable to your situation...

 

1)  Not many mechanics are going to be willing to take you "under their wing."  You are only going to be there for 2-3 months -- not much of a potential ROI for them.

 

2)  Do not mention your parents divorce in any job interview, either with an internship or at a mechanic.  That type of info might get you a sympathetic "helping hand" on an internet car forum but it will do you zero good in an interview.

 

3)  I'm concerned about your view of the lab as punishment. As a point of reference, if you told me that during an interview, I would quickly terminate the interview and your hiring prospects just became less than epsilon.   New college grads I hire are generally surprised by the amount of time they spend in the lab (especially when considering how little of their academic courses were lab related) and every good enginner that I respect is excellent in the lab.   In my ever-so-humble opinion, I just don't understand how an engineer can say that they don't want to work in the lab -- to me, it's like saying you want to learn how to work on cars but you don't want to spend time in the garage...

 

4)  While nobody wants to do boring grunt work all day, I would suggest looking at things from your (potential) employer's perspective:  If you can't design the best damn bolt for a seat in a 747 that you are capable of designing, why the f__k would I ever trust you to design a plane/rocket?

 

5)  Yes, career-related internships are always preferable but SOME type of work experience is better than nothing.  (Just be prepared to tell me what you learned when you worked at Pep Boys.) 

 

6)  I have had candidates tell me that they "enjoy working with people" or that they "are good with working with people."  And I have laughed at every single one of them.  I'm not saying I have never hired a self-advertised "people person"  but I do laugh at them.   When I hear a candidate talk about their people skills, I tend to think that they are trying to compensate for a lack of their technical knowledge.  I hire engineers to provide technical solutions, not to build a co-worker's self esteem.

 

7)  And one last thing (assuming that I haven't pissed you off and you're still reading):

 

The thing I don't understand is that so many companies won't even look at you unless you have 5 years of experience in the field...how are we supposed to be hired if we CAN'T be hired.

 

 

 

There is a term for this situation and it is called "life."

[DatsunKing1]

Nah, I don't get pissed off, you're giving me honest answers at least I'm learning this from people that are doing the hiring and not from some book. We all hear the horror stories of 'Ted got hired...he's been in a lab for the last 5 years' No one wants that.

 

I'll always have a lot to learn, better to learn this now before an interview or opportunity than to get there and f*** it all up.

I would design the bolt to the best that I could. I'd know everything about the bolt and everything around it, but I wouldn't want to be stuck doing that forever. Granted the bolt's design is great and I helped the company, I'd get something else probably. You're right, it's a step. Then again, the people that are stuck in the same spot year after year are those who don't try to move up. If you design something half-assed, you get a half-ass return, fired, or you get people killed.

 

I guess it depends on the school, but I've spent a good amount of time in a lab, so I might be looking at it with the false view of that's all I'll ever do.

 

Hard to find people that don't sugarcoat and BS. I appreciate it

 

Your honesty may have helped me more than you think.

[Jon 74 260Z]

Good luck with the job search and keep us posted on what happens.

 

TBone's advice about lateral moves within a company to further your career is absolutely golden.

 

Don't be afraid to relocate too!  IMO, you should be willing to live in a different part of the country (or the world, for that matter) for a while...

[DatsunKing1]

I'm more than happy to move, in fact I hope I'll be asked to. I'm multilingual, I've never been out of the US (mum and dad never allowed) so I'm really excited to see the opportunities. Only problem would be not being able to take all my guns Hopefully I get something German or Spanish speaking...although I wouldn't mind Brazil either

Edited May 7, 2013 by DatsunKing1

[T-Bone028]

And to clarify my statement about degrees, certifications, and internships not meaning anything, they do. They help get your resume from the recruiters desk, to the hiring managers. If you get called in for an interview, then it's up to you to demonstrate how you would apply the knowledge you've gained. If you can't, then it's meaningless.

 

Best of luck.

[TimZ]

 

I guess it depends on the school, but I've spent a good amount of time in a lab, so I might be looking at it with the false view of that's all I'll ever do.

 

Hard to find people that don't sugarcoat and BS. I appreciate it

 

Your honesty may have helped me more than you think.

I'll reiterate what others have already alluded to - I think your idea of what goes on in a "lab" at an engineering firm might be a little off.  You'd be "designing a bolt" at your desk, probably in an office cubicle.  The lab is where you would create, test and verify that design.  For most of us in engineering, that's where you get your hands dirty and deal with actual physical things.  (I'm an automotive engineer, so my "lab" is a test track ) If you tell me you don't want to be "stuck in the lab" in an interview, I'm going to make some assumptions about you that would sound more like this:

 

 

 

 Even worse, the people that DID get hired in my class don't have the intuition or skill set to really make a difference, for those doing the hiring, (like ctc) I feel bad for you. They can answer book problems but don't understand how the simplest piece of machinery works, then they're expected to help build a plane/rocket?

 

...what I hear is that you'd prefer to sit in your cubicle and run a CAD program or simulation, and are not interested in understanding how things really physically function.  Perhaps you think that work is beneath you and you just want work on climbing the corporate ladder.   I'm guessing that's not what you really intended for me to think.

Edited May 7, 2013 by TimZ

[TimZ]

Disclaimer:  I'm a EE, not an AE, so you can decide how much of what I say is applicable to your situation...

 

1)  Not many mechanics are going to be willing to take you "under their wing."  You are only going to be there for 2-3 months -- not much of a potential ROI for them.

 

2)  Do not mention your parents divorce in any job interview, either with an internship or at a mechanic.  That type of info might get you a sympathetic "helping hand" on an internet car forum but it will do you zero good in an interview.

 

3)  I'm concerned about your view of the lab as punishment. As a point of reference, if you told me that during an interview, I would quickly terminate the interview and your hiring prospects just became less than epsilon.   New college grads I hire are generally surprised by the amount of time they spend in the lab (especially when considering how little of their academic courses were lab related) and every good enginner that I respect is excellent in the lab.   In my ever-so-humble opinion, I just don't understand how an engineer can say that they don't want to work in the lab -- to me, it's like saying you want to learn how to work on cars but you don't want to spend time in the garage...

 

4)  While nobody wants to do boring grunt work all day, I would suggest looking at things from your (potential) employer's perspective:  If you can't design the best damn bolt for a seat in a 747 that you are capable of designing, why the f__k would I ever trust you to design a plane/rocket?

 

5)  Yes, career-related internships are always preferable but SOME type of work experience is better than nothing.  (Just be prepared to tell me what you learned when you worked at Pep Boys.) 

 

 

 

 

All good advice, and as someone who also hires engineers, I'd say that it's all applicable, regardless of the type of engineering degree you are pursuing   You might be surprised how much "cross breeding" goes on once you are in an actual job - you'll likely be expected to do more than just strictly "Aerospace" Engineering.

 

On not mentioning your parent's divorce, I agree, and in fact as an interviewer such questions are off-limits.  You should never be asked to divulge such information - even questions like "do you have kids?" are not allowed.  Given this, there is no reason to volunteer any kind of personal information like this - the _best_ result you can expect from volunteering personal information is for it to have no effect, it'll more likely do harm.

 

 

 

6)  I have had candidates tell me that they "enjoy working with people" or that they "are good with working with people."  And I have laughed at every single one of them.  I'm not saying I have never hired a self-advertised "people person"  but I do laugh at them.   When I hear a candidate talk about their people skills, I tend to think that they are trying to compensate for a lack of their technical knowledge.  I hire engineers to provide technical solutions, not to build a co-worker's self esteem.

 

 

LOL - "I'm a PEOPLE-PERSON, DAMNIT!!!  WHAT THE F*CK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?????"

 

Any self-respecting engineer should know what movie that came from...

Edited May 7, 2013 by TimZ

[randy 77zt]

I cant say anthing about engineering but I can tell you about about working as a mechanic/technician on cars and light trucks .It sucks.Its all piece work-if the shop has no work you go home with no money.All of the labor operations have a set amount of time-if you run into a problem its your dime.I spent 20 years as a Ford dealer tech.The guys that do heavy engine repair and trans repair have it the worst.I missed a broken sealing ring on a transmission rebuild 1 time and since the vehicle was a comeback I spent a whole day correcting the problem-for free.I laugh at those tech college ads on tv.They wont teach you how to pencil whip a repair order .The guys I know still working at dealerships are making less now than in the early 2000's.My opinion on aerospace-alot of it is related to defense spending in the federal government.The democrats hate defense spending.There are still a few places in california that companies like Lockheed or Boeing are doing R&D.Your best bet would be to take any kind of summer job or take some summer school to try and graduate early.

[TimZ]

.My opinion on aerospace-alot of it is related to defense spending in the federal government.The democrats hate defense spending.There are still a few places in california that companies like Lockheed or Boeing are doing R&D.Your best bet would be to take any kind of summer job or take some summer school to try and graduate early.

While this is generally somewhat true of the democratic party, politicians _all_ love or hate defense spending, depending on which contract you are talking about and which districts have manufacturers in them that are affected by that particular contract.  And defense spending is spread around pretty evenly by design.  So the notion that Democrats are the "enemy" of defense contractors doesn't really hold much water.  I worked at McDonnell-Douglas in the early 90's, and Dick Cheney was the Secretary of Defense when they cancelled the A12 under false pretenses, cancelled the light attack helicopter program and steered the F22 project elsewhere, all of which were key programs for us, and is arguably a major part of the reason that that company is now called "Boeing".  Point being that this stuff is more than just R vs D, and who is in office isn't a good indicator of what defense spending on Aerospace is going to look like.

 

That said, it would not be surprising to see defense spending get cut in the near future - hard to say if it will be in Aero or not, though.  Probably not that much new spending on traditional air superiority aircraft like the F22, but drones probably won't get hurt, for instance.  Also, the emerging commercial space companies look like they would be really exciting to work at, but probably a little risky job security-wise.  You would likely end up changing jobs several times as startups come and go.  While stressful, it's at least easily explainable on your resume.

Edited May 8, 2013 by TimZ

[Jon 74 260Z]

I'm an automotive engineer, so my "lab" is a test track

 

 

When I read that, I didn't know whether to start hating you a little bit out of jealousy or to start asking you for a job.

 

"My strengths?  Well, I love working with teams of people and holding interdepartmental meetings to build synergy from our core competencies.  I also love writing mission statements, Gantt charts and cross-functional, balanced-matrix org charts for dynamic-resource allocation.   My biggest weakness is that I really like to do a super job so I might work overtime on occasion to see that the task gets almost completed."

 

 

Oh, and I'm going to guess "Fallng Down" for the movie quote, but I'm not sure...

[EvilC]

TimZ - Office Space of course!

[BluDestiny]

I'm in a similar boat, about ot finish up my undergrad in electrical engineering at 23 and possibly about to start my masters (still not sure/ cost too much). I don't necessarily work at a garage, but I sorta know enough.

 

When I go to the garage I basically talk crap with th emechanics. They are two older guys, who were both master techs for nissan in the early 80's till 96. It started with a simple checkup on my car to see if they knew all the quirks. Lo and behold Sil, (one of the mechanics) pulled out a wooden timing chain chalk. I bring my car to them to trouble shoot small things, he started getting me parts for his price from advance. Now I can come over and pretty much operate the lift and tire machine myself if they have space and business is slow.

 

It takes time.

 

But if you want a fast track then you can apply for jiffy lube or some oil change only place. I know a lot of people that started off like that, and they don't make the best mechanics.

 

As for the crappy engineering job market, that's life. I hear its a little better for EE. I have a friend who works at lockheed here in orlando so that will be my first avenue. This summer I'm actually working on a nano sat project for my school which will be the biggest project I will work on here at school. Projects are what companies look at.

 

I'm also with you on the people getting hired. I know some a**hat cheaters that got picked and feel absolutely sorry for the companies. I just hope that over time they get weeded out. As for your comment to CAD work all day, that what most of my friend in the business do. They start off small, working in groups of similar ages people who are under the guidance of a master engineer. 

 

I know several of my friend who were AE are no working in the petroluem engineering field. ym friend at lockheed is actually doing failure rate testing for missle electronics, so just cause you are AE doesn't mean you will work on planes. 

 

edit: I should probably state that my area of focus in avionics. which is why I'm throwing out a bunch of aerospace companies. 

 

What I am curious about is if I can get an internship in the automotive field. I'd love to work for a car company.

Edited May 8, 2013 by BluDestiny

[Jesse OBrien]

I'll throw my $0.02 in briefly. I'm a systems engineer and software developer at a company that runs online CAD training (not just AutoCAD, but all the AutoDesk products). Our clients are ALWAYS looking for applicants who are familiar with the fundamentals of whatever product they're using (MEP, AutoCAD, Inventor, Revit is HUGE right now), and it's amazing how many engineers don't know the absolute basic interface controls. I'd suggest getting a little experience with any of the AutoDesk products and getting familiar with how things work in those software suites. AutoDesk also offers Student versions of their software, and I believe they can offer them for free.

 

Show up for an interview at an aerospace company with an example of a design you created and a scale model either machined or 3d printed, and you'll have a HUGE leg up on most of the other applicants. It won't make MONEY for you, but based on what I've seen (take it for what it's worth), it's a big step in the right direction.

[BluDestiny]

We use CATIA at my school. Honestly most of our simulations are run off MATLAB. 

Edited May 8, 2013 by BluDestiny