building a hot street car

[30 ounce]

I have a very similar motor to what you want to build.  I used Rebello's 3.0 liter kit that uses the offset ground crank, Eagle 138mm rods and JE 89mm forged shallow pistons.  My head work was done locally and I used Isky's 290 duration-490 lift cam.  I used stock 280 valves.  It is a blast to drive on the street and the track!  But I have some friends who built turbo 280's that are much faster than me for  less money.   Mine sounds awesome though.   

[Xnke]

Bryan Blake would be my first choice, since he's local and has extracted very good power from the L, both N/A and boosted. I would call Slover's Porting Service and see if I could convince them to do an L-head, Or call Dave Rebello...his port work is quite reasonably priced for the return. (Quite!)

[Tony D]

And set aside 25% of your engine build budget for post build tuning.  Most folks forget that tuning is where you get that last bit of horsepower, not in the build.  If you budget $4000 for a build, reduce that budget to $3000 and set aside the $1000 for dyno tuning and parts swapping to make the engine work.  You'll end up with more power then the guy who spends $4,000 on the build and has no money for tuning.

That's a low number for dyno time! LOL

[Tony D]

Dave Rebello or Mike at Slover's Porting Service in LA. There's no convincing necessary on either of them. They both are L-Engine head specialists.

 

I haven't heard anything out of Bryan for a long time.

[Xnke]

Last I spoke to Slover's, they didn't want to do one for me. Now I know who to ask for!

[AZGhost623]

That's a low number for dyno time! LOL

 

Its $200 an hour here if you supply the parts (if using carbs). Buying multiple hours you get discounts, so $1000 is a ton of time. The best idea is to get it close as to what you think it is, and then have them do the rest on the machine with tweaking parts here and there.

Edited November 4, 2013 by AZGhost623

[AZGhost623]

So after reading about, should work towards a 35mm-38mm port setup, with somewhere around 200 cfm? Or is that too ambitious for a street setup with high compression NA, stock valve sizes 280/480 106 LC, headers, EDIS, and +1 overbore? Where should one land with a good flow output for a good street port?

[Rob240z]

Hopefully this will help you some as an example of a street build I did in the past.

 

This is the results of the street port work Rebello had done on my build.

Rebello P90 Head Flow Stats by Rob Olejniczak, on Flickr

 

This is the breakdown of costs of my build from Rebello.

Rob O0001 by Rob Olejniczak, on Flickr

 

This shows calculations to get to exactly the 8:1 compression ratio I requested. for exactly for a supercharged l-engine. 

Rebello Engine Notes by Rob Olejniczak, on Flickr

 

Before I did my build I did a lot of research on who to use. I'm on the east coast and was reluctant to pay for shipping back and forth to the other coast. I eventually called Dave and talked to him about what I wanted out of my build. I took his advice on what was needed and what wasn't for my particular build. With his reputation I trusted that he knew much more than I did about an L-engine and when he said things like, l24 rods will be plenty strong for my build, I listened. He took the time to explain why. When he sent me over the whole quote it was a little more than I wanted to pay. That wasn't because he wasn't expensive though. I went through the whole list of items on the quote and frankly, each item was priced very fairly. It was actually a good deal. He was the cheapest I could find for JE pistons as well as other items. It was more than I estimated, because I was forgetting a few things. I ended up calling him back a week later and moving forward. In the end, he was great to work with and was very professional. He finished the build when he said he would. That is rare. I even got an education on things like tensile strength in relation to rods and that a rods strength needs to be higher for high rpm engines, but not necessarily for high horsepower boosted motors. My plan was to redline my engine at 7000 rpm. He said stock rods would be plenty strong beyond that. I felt just like you about only having to do this once the right way. I wanted a long lasting reliable engine. In my mind that meant overbuilding it. Dave saved me some money in that respect, by not using aftermarket rods, because the l24 rods were stronger than my particular build needed and would work great.

 

I'm not trying to push you to use Rebello. I'm happy I did, but I would just suggest using a very reputable engine builder. Talk to each one and see who you are the most comfortable with. I'm sure the other recommended guys would probably do a great job too. Just don't try to save a couple bucks on someone that doesn't have a great reputation. In the end, they never cost less. Just pay a little more and end up happy in the end with a high quality build. Someone like Rebello is expensive compared to a junkyard turbo swap, but apples to apples he really is a great deal. I've heard the same about Braap and John Coffee and I believe it. I've heard Bryan Blake does great work too, he just younger and hasn't been around as long. That wouldn't stop me from using him though. The key is, I haven't heard anything negative about any of their work. Why take a risk when you don't have too with a builder who has had any negative feedback at all. 

 

Good luck with your research and build. It sounds like it will be a cool project.

[AZGhost623]

Wow thanks Rob for all that great information! I did call Rebello tonight on my way home, his prices haven't changed from what you listed He said that it should flow 200 cfm with the right cam. He said he will give me all the details on my head so I know everything about. So I think Ill go with the pro here, and spend a bit more to make it right. I would trust Rebello over anyone else. 

 

As far as Blake "1 fast z" I dont think he is in the game anymore. I've checked around locally and no one uses him, or can even get ahold of him to do work. Had some people tell me he is doing big contract jobs for heavy equipment and government work.

 

I think everyone provided some great information here. Ive got a real good start on my setup, and just need some money to go into my head.  With a nice cleared up port job, valve and seat work I think it will compliment my engine specs just fine. "Spend your money wisely, spend it once, and make sure you get good value for what you spend it on." At this point, the headwork is where its going to be which comes in way under what I was prepared to spend.

Edited November 5, 2013 by AZGhost623

[Tony D]

Last I spoke to Slover's, they didn't want to do one for me. Now I know who to ask for!

When the hell was that? I can think of half a dozen heads this year, and probably 9 or 10 last year that were done through their shop!

In fact, Slover's people were making comments on a Datsun Facebook page within the last few months about guys complaining nobody is doing head work for competition on Datsuns and their gist was "if you're making a replica BRE car! why not have the head done where the original was done" or something like that.

 

They are not cheap.

They are not fast for turnaround.

They are worth the wait.

 

The last guy I sent there grabbed me and hugged me after he got his dyno results!

 

I can do without that...

[Xnke]

Weird. I was hoping they had a source for some parts when I was doing the last one last winter.

 

AZ, I had a detailed PM typed up and the forum ate it. I'll send it on this evening when I get home.

[Tony D]

It is possible they were back logged and just turned down non-competition business.

 

The HUGGER waited months to get his back.

[AZGhost623]

Well I got the headoff tonight. Will goto home depot and get some materials to build wooden box Sunday and ship it out Monday. Cant wait!!!

[AZGhost623]

Well interesting, spoke with Dave today. He got my cannon intake and head. He is going to port match the intake to the head, as well as check the balance tube on the intake which he has found to be messed up at times. After talking to him, about what I wanted he kept saying the same thing, that usually these mods go on 3.0+ liter engines, not stock, that he usually works on big engines. Was a bit weird, but he said he would get back to me after he does his preliminary investigative work on the equipment i sent him. I told him I trusted him to make the best decisions possible for what Im looking to get. He also didnt like my cam, and said he was going to profile it to find out exactly what it is (I have reservations myself) and possibly go with something bigger. I told him I still wanted it streetable, where I didnt have to dump it off the line to get it going. He also asked where I want the engine to live at and I told him as high as 6500 to 7000 rpms, which is also lower on the scale where he said he is used to 7000-8500 rpms is where he is used to setting up cars for. So he said something low end with torque may be good vs high horsepower. Decisions desicions. Basically Ill let him make that call based on his experience and knowledge. But Ill be very happy either way to get a good flowing head, and being able to say its Rebello work

[Rob240z]

Everything Dave is saying makes perfect sense. For a naturally aspirated engine, increasing displacement and/or rpms will need a head that flows more air to take advantage of that. Making your head flow more than you need isn't necessary. It will probably have some positive effect, but not nearly as much as also increasing displacement and rpms. 

 

I decided on max rpms of 7000 for my build, but In my case I wanted the increase in head flow so I could decrease the boost pressure relative to flow. Forcing more air through it would be easier.

 

For the headwork your getting, and staying NA, I would rev the engine higher and/or increase displacement. Otherwise it would be a lot of money spent for the head with not much gain. The head will be so much more capable than what you are trying to flow through it.

[AZGhost623]

Hmm I thought the bigger point of the conversation was getting the headwork done yielded the best bang for the buck. Where as going with bigger displacement +3.0L was ok, but didnt yield as much as a performance upgrade than a bigger flowing head. 

[Rob240z]

As long you pick the right cam to take advantage of it the yes. Your putting a head on that flows more, but not doing what is needed to allow it to. Raising your rpm to 8000 would take advantage of it. Or an offset ground crank would too. Both would be even better.

 

For example, Let's say the head flows 15% better than stock. You should try to get 15% more air through it.

 

Choice 1: increase rpm from 7000 to 8050.

7000x1.15=8050

 

Choice 2: increase displacement from 2.8L to 3.22L

2.8x1.15=3.22

 

Any combination of the 2 or many other things can effect it too. That is the very simplified explanation.

 

Most would prefer the stroker for a torque friendly street car would be my guess. I personally like the way a high rpm L-engine sounds and drives. But the more reserved side of me might go stroker if I had to choose 1 or the other. 7500rpm 3.0L sounds just perfect though.

[Lazeum]

Dave has provided me thru Braap a ".487†lift tight lash grind" (0.487 lift, D50 224, Adv 276) and I love it. I had exactly the same goal with low end torque on L28 with rev limit at 6500-7000rpm. I love the combo which is plenty enough to have fun with the Z on French twisty roads.

[Lazeum]

Braap has also reported getting 260 crank hp out of a setup similar to mine with regular dizzy and 45DCOE (instead of 40DCOE in mine)

[AZGhost623]

I dont have any reason Im not going that high up to 7500-8000 rpm its just that I dont see a need to or afraid of something failing at that high of rpm. But I know if I do, my DCOE 45's can more than handle it along with my ARP bolts and MLS gasket.  I would be more than estatic if I got 250hp or more out of my setup after all this headwork, however that wasnt primarily my goal, just to have more oompf...

 

I recently managed to get a set of used high compression 89mm Kameari pistons for a 3.0L setup for a 100$ in near new condition. Ill get some FJ20 rods, and just pack it all away for a rainy day when I am ready to tear the block apart in a few years perhaps.