Ryan Merrill Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I am researching the requirements for a fuel system setup that can handle 600whp. I'm looking for a quiet system preferably an in tank setup. Bolt in in better as I would rather spend my time driving than wrenching once its completed. Car will be set up with the stock Aristo 2JZ GTE VVI @ 14 psi initially until a single setup and aftermarket engine control can be purchased and installed. My 4V modular power fox body uses twin in-tank Aeromotive 340 LPH pumps, single #8 feed and a # 6 return to Aeromotive fuel rails, Aeromotive Boost sensitive regulator, and 42 lb injectors. Car makes 525 hp, 505 tq, idles smoothly, drives like stock (until a heavy foot) gets 24 mpg and is very easy to driver; a true street car. You cannot hear the fuel pumps running. Put your foot into it and punished the tires. The car is fun and so much fun to drive, dead reliable and I would like to replicate that in my 71 240 2JZ vvti swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Hmm 240z has an external fuel pump, the pickups are prone to being rusty, the output and return lines are on the small side, not baffled, and the rubber bits are only rated for low pressure. With your requirements, sounds like cleaning the stock tank, using the feed line as the return and using the drain port as the feed (exact details are foggy, but it is floating around somewhere on here), and using an intank pump in a surge tank is your best bet to fit minimal work, maximum reliability, and some what of a soundproofing. If money is not really a limiting factor, I think Pro Alloy or something like that make a tank that fits in the factory location with baffling and an internal pump with AN outputs. Plumb that with 1/2inch hardline/-8an lines to the fuel rail and that should meet your requirements. If you would rather not deal with any of the stock system at all in terms of finding J-bolts and straps...cutting out the spare tire well and putting in a flat floor and throwing in an aluminum fuel cell with a baffled intank pickup and fuel pump should be on the quicker side of things. Routing the lines would be really easy while the driveline is out of the car and everything would be new, so no worries. I can say even the supposedly quiet inline bosch pump that I have is fairly audible. Although I don't know if that will be a problem when it is being drowned out by exhaust. I know my low pressure fuel pumps could be heard over even my slightly muffled straight pipe exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernier Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Im freakin with you. I bought a 15 gallon drag cell with sump for 150$, and a 70$ surge tank. They make fittings for the fuel rail to convert to -6, or -8. -6 will definitely handle 600whp on e85, or pump. Heres what i did yesterday. Fairly easy. Took a couple of hours. Made a skeleton out of 3/4" angle iron, and used 1x1 square bar welded between the frame rails to hang it from. Should be sweet, and maintenance free. The stock lines wont flow enough to make 600 i think. Gotta do something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Merrill Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Would be nice to keep the spare. I like going to events in the across the boarder in the us that are 5-22 hours away. I would prefer to use the stock filling location. Money isn't an issue, building it right is. How are the fumes from the fuel cell inside the cabin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Avernier, that turned out really nice! I may have to revisit mine. I really don't like how low my cover hangs. If money isn't an object look at the Pro Alloy cell. It is shaped like the stock tank, made out of aluminum with baffles and bolts to the stock location. I want to say you can even use the stock filler location with the remote filler. I have no fuel fumes in the cabin from my cell, I have a vent venting in the stock fill location. And the cell itself is boxed in and covered separated from the cabin. I must admit, I have been approached more then once when I fill gas, usually the gas attendant is worries that I am filling spare gas tanks in the car. Once they see I am filling a grounded cell, they usually turn around before they get to me. Edited January 28, 2014 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Merrill Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Avernier, that turned out really nice! I may have to revisit mine. I really don't like how low my cover hangs. If money isn't an object look at the Pro Alloy cell. It is shaped like the stock tank, made out of aluminum with baffles and bolts to the stock location. I want to say you can even use the stock filler location with the remote filler. I have no fuel fumes in the cabin from my cell, I have a vent venting in the stock fill location. And the cell itself is boxed in and covered separated from the cabin. I must admit, I have been approached more then once when I fill gas, usually the gas attendant is worries that I am filling spare gas tanks in the car. Once they see I am filling a grounded cell, they usually turn around before they get to me. That's more along the lines of what I'm looking for. I have been trying to find some pictures of people that used the 92+ camaro gas tank flipped. Electric pumps already installed, charcoal box in place, fuel sender, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Merrill Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 I dont feel like cutting the car up when its not needed. I have found my solution. I will be using Aeromotives stealth in-tank setup. basically you drill a hole in the top and install one of these pumps in the new location. It come with everything including foam. I run the same 340 LPH in the mustang and its quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTMStrawn Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 With that setup will you need to run a surge tank as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaofox Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I was gonna run -6 feed -8 return (initially wanted -8 feed and -10 return) aluminum hard lines with a bosch 044 external. Stock is external, its not that loud. I wouldn't mind getting an aluminum tank with an intank fuel pump but the 76 tank is more than enough, so im running with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernier Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Why would you run a larger return than feed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EF Ian Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Why would you run a larger return than feed? Because that's the proper way to setup a high power fuel system. Its vital to have no backpressure in the return line, therefore you run it bigger than the feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Because that's the proper way to setup a high power fuel system. Its vital to have no backpressure in the return line, therefore you run it bigger than the feed. I believe that is primarily carbureted engines where you should run the same size or larger return and can run into backpressure in the return line. High HP EFI engines will not have the same issue, as you won't see 40+ psi on thje backside of the regulator.. Typically one size smaller line from the feed is how you'll see forced induction EFI engines run, though you won't want to run smaller than a -6 if running a -6 feed. regards, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Oh, BTW, I ran a -10AN line from the pump to the engine bay, splitting in a Y to 2 -8AN lines, feeding each end of the fuel rail, with a -6AN return line in the center of the rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Merrill Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Ive always run a larger feed than return on my mustangs. I usually run #8 feed, #6 return, pretty much standard for a fuelie car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernier Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 One number difference, or same size feed/return is the standard. 3/8ths line supports 600whp and e85 without issue, so running a -10 feed seems like a foolish waste of money to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EF Ian Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Any reading I've done on fuel systems has always recommended that you never run a smaller return than the feed, as if running high pressures and especially at idle it can cause over pressure as the regulator will be bleeding a lot and if the return is causing a restriction then the regulator won't be able to work properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernier Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Well, reading is stupid. How about you measure every feed and return on every efi car in the junkyard and report back with how many have larger returns than feeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Agreed, -10an is overkill for 600 hp... just stating what I had installed...was making a little more than 600 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EF Ian Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Well, reading is stupid. How about you measure every feed and return on every efi car in the junkyard and report back with how many have larger returns than feeds? This is only going to be an issue on high HP cars and mainly turbo ones at that, therefore most average cars at a scrapyard don't really apply. I really couldn't care less about what you do with yours, but I will listen to people more knowledgeable than me who have built many high performance turbo cars and make my return lines either the same as or bigger than my feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaofox Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 After talking to my friend building his 2jz 240z he also said the same thing -8 feed and -6 return. Worked well on his z32 2jz and will work well on his 2j 240z so im going to go that route. Still going to order the same thing. Im actually glad this came up because I didn't know any of that. I know for sure on a turbo the oil feed needs to be small and the oil return needs to be huge (-3 or -4an feed and -10 return). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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