lcbusa1300 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 My right rear tire on my 78 280z is toed in badly. I'm going through a tire in about 3000 miles. In know the rear toe isn't adjustable on these cars so I'm not sure what to do. I've read some but can't find anything other than "car must've been hit on that side". As far as I know the car's never been wrecked. I jacked it up and looked today and nothing looks bent or out of place. Could it be the lower control arm spindle causing this? (Hopefully not). Anybody have a clue what could cause this? BTW. The left tire appears to be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Could be that the spindle was drilled wrong. That's been reported before. Simple fix is probably camber bushings on the rear. Search "poor man's toe adjuster" for another solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcbusa1300 Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 Thanks. Can't find anything on poor man's toe adjuster. What I did find on hybridz kept tellin me the page is unavailable for some reason. I'm seeing people say the camber bushings can correct toe a little, but I guess I'm not seeing exactly how they work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 For your problem, I would get the alignment checked first before doing anything else. Just take it to a shop and spend the $60 to get it checked. I've seen more bent stub axles than bent spindles or improperly drilled hubs. In fact, lately everybody who has done a disc brake conversion lately has has bent stub issues. Could also be your camber (how is the tire wearing)? I slammed into a curb going backwards and sideways at about sixty in younger years. Totally destroyed a wheel and shattered the cast webbing between the spindle pin and the hub. The control arm was fine and the suspension pickups were fine. If you really are bent, like JMortensen says, the offset bushings should do the trick. But they are noisy! Just take them back to your alignment guy and he should know what to do with them. Be sure to get the little wrench that usually comes with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/24100-the-poor-mans-rear-toe-in-adjuster/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcbusa1300 Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Alright I'll try to find someone to take it to this week and have them check it out. The tire is wearing on the outside. I don't think the camber is off enough to wear a tire out in 3000 miles. I have ~ 75% tread on the inside and bald on the outside. The toe is clearly off though. It's visible to the naked eye. When I get above 55mph, that tire feels like its trying to hop.I just hate to pay $60 to "tire world" for the little guy that's been there 3 months to "look" at my car when chances are he's gonna tell me what I already know. I'm a college student and $60 is a lot of money. I don't mind the noise if those bushings will fix the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 You can run a tape measure across the tire and measure the toe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Didn't know you were broke. How about you buy the bushings and keep the receipt. Then you have them if you need them on the spot (and you only pay $60 once). If it turns out you don't need them, return them for a re-stocking fee. I assume you have crawled under there and checked your current bushings? Have you inspected for a bent lower control arm? Most likely way to bend one of those control arms is to put a jack in the wrong place, or a fork lift if the car has come out of a salvage yard. Has the car been hit? The front bushings are restrained in little saddles in the floor of the car, unlikely to have damage there unless the bushings are totally shot. The rear bushings are kind of on little towers hanging down from the floor. Check that those hangars are parallel and that the rear bushings are not totally trashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcbusa1300 Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Broke... lol story of my life. Okay good deal. I didn't look at that when I "checked it out". As far as I could see the control arm looked straight, but I'll look at the bushings and hangers as soon as I get back this weekend. Are the bushings something I can change myself or do they have to be pressed in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Is it the driver side or the passenger side with the bad tire? You can totally do a rear bushing swap yourself-no press required. If you can get enough adjustment out of the affected side, you could do just that side. You need a 14mm wrench to fit the bolts that hold the rear yokes under the bushings. Before you do that, loosen the bolts that hold the bushings on, that is either a 23mm or 24mm wrench, usually pretty snug, so you might need a hammer. For the front bushings, you have to drop the little crossmember that hold them up. Depending on the setup of your differential mount, you may have to loosen or take that off (I have been running modified diff mounts too long to remember how the stock one works/attaches). On the driver's side, the exhaust might be in the way, so that can make this a bit of a pain, so this is one time that a poorly fitted exhaust can be in your favor. No pressing required. I'm hoping you find a trashed bushing once you get down there. It would be a lot easier to just swap a stock bushing and you are done. If you have to use an offset bushing, you will figure out how they work once you have them in your hand. Look hard at your lower control arms: if one is bent causing toe-in, I would expect you to find the damage on the front edge of the control arm. If you have to swap a control arm, that is pretty hard, due to the spindle pin being rough to remove. Lets hope you don't need that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socorob Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Allens on 190 did my friends Z alignment with all adjustable TTT suspension and he did my Sunbeam with an adjustable 4 link. I couldn't find anyone else to even want to look at it. It took him all day and he still only charged me his normal price. he seemed to be a stand up guy. When my Z is done I will bring it back to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socorob Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 And if you need to press anything I have use of a small press. Long as its nothing too big or crazy it should handle it. I'm over in Mandeville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcbusa1300 Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 @socorob thanks man ill keep that in mind in case I need to press. I'll have to give Allens a call. I don't really have anyone In Slidell that I can trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcbusa1300 Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 @rebekahsz its on the passenger side. Sounds like a fairly simple install though. I just installed new struts and ground control coil overs over spring break last week, and was hoping that would fix some of the issue by some chance, but it didn't. I think it made it worse. I'm hoping it'll just be something as simple as a trashed bushing too, spindle pin is the worst case scenario to me. I've read those horror stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 If replacing the bushings doesn't work you're close enough to New Orleans that there should be a good alignment shop that also has frame/unibody straightening equipment. They can identify your problem and fix it. That's what they do. Get an estimate up front. Just out of curiosity - do you have the stock suspension or have coil overs been installed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Outcome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcbusa1300 Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 Sorry for the delayed response. Been busy With the end of the semester and haven't had time to do anything. I installed coilovers over spring break but this issue was going on well before the install. I still haven't tried the bushings but its at the top of my list of things to do. It's so bad I'm having to go down to the tire shop in a bit and get a new tire. In November the tire was brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcbusa1300 Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 I got the string out yesterday to get a rough measure and turns out its about 1/4 inch toed in on both sides. That's terrible! For some reason the right wears much faster than the left though. I took it to an alignment shop and they wouldn't even put it on the rack. They said there was nothing they could do and told me to take it to a body shop that does frame work and have them look at it. So I took it to the best collision place I know of and they said everything is straight. I dunno what to do besides order those camber bushings and give em a shot. I just don't wanna be throwing money at it hoping it fixes it. I love my Z but I'm considering selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Could be that you don't have a "toe" problem, but some other problem. If you take your car to a shop and say " I have a toe-in problem, please measure and confirm", many shops will do exactly what you tell them and report what you asked and no more. In this case - "Toe is okay.". Post a picture of the tire at least. Maybe someone will recognize a possibility. Add some numbers, like the what the shop's actually measured. Are they just eye-balling it? Their numbers should be more precise than a piece of string. Here's a decent reference for alignment terms, just to be sure the terminology is correct - http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 When you measure rear toe you get a number, but it doesn't tell you the whole story. On front toe the number is all that matters, because the front end will automatically equalize whatever you have left and right, but in the rear, you might have the left side pointing straight ahead and the right side toed in .5", and you come out with a .5" toe in figure. It's not safe to assume that the toe is equal on both sides, and judging by your tire wear, it isn't. They call this "thrust angle". If your thrust angle is 0 then your tires point straight ahead. If it's 7 degrees, that means that you car is crabbing down the road. I'm betting that is the case for you. You need to find a shop that will actually take some time to figure this out and isn't just looking to get you in and out the door. I'd suggest you google "race alignment slidell" and see what comes up. Maybe throw in "porsche" in your search. If you find a shop that sets up race cars, they won't just turn you around because you have something funky going on. The camber bushings should adjust out .5" toe without any trouble, and it is the simplest way out of this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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