question about a engine setup.

[Guest ON3GO]

Ok guys..

well im looking for a L28ET and as of know im just buying parts for the motor and car so i can get this car done some time soon.

 

I really want to make this car a monster, and i want this motor to just be NUTS!.. mad boost on pump gas, even more when i can run race gas, daily driver, and something that 12sec cars are scared of.

 

BUT! im kinda doing this on a budget, i mean if i spend more money on the motor ill just wont do other work to say the body like i wanted to and then start saving again.

 

So sense im going to get a 280ZX turbo motor what internals should i get that would help make this a mid to low 11sec wonder.

 

What pistons, rods, head work, turbo (remember pump gas) injectors, ignition, etc etc..

also i wanted to get the AEM engine management system, and i was reading about it, it says it can control nitrous, and boost. do does that i mean i dont have to get a boost controller also?

 

thanks

 

mike

[katman]

Originally posted by ON3GO:

Ok guys..

 

I really want to make this car a monster, and i want this motor to just be NUTS!..

 

BUT! im kinda doing this on a budget

 

mike

Uh, how big is said budget? That pretty much determines lots of things, and sorta helps us cut to the chase regarding what parts/options etc.

[Guest ON3GO]

well say about maybe 10k on the whole car..

but im saying like interior, paint, body work, rims and etc...

im doing all the work myself and im sure i can maybe get more money in the long run..

 

mike

[Bob_H]

Mike,

Let me phrase Katman's question a little more clearly.

HOW MUCH FOR THE ENGINE BUDGET?

You can easily spend 10k on body and interior so that doesn't help us at all.

Pin a number down $$ wise or any suggestions we give you are useless.

But lets take a bigger look here. You posted in this thread:

http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000960

And again in this one:

http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000418

and your comment:

i ask this is because im looking to build a 450rwhp L28T motor for my 240Z but i want this on pump gas.

and you went back and forth on the 7mgte motor.

What is the fastest car you have ever driven? I mean driven, not ridden in. If it is a low 14, high 13 second car or slower, trust me, take a easy step and shoot for high 12's. You will kill yourself with a jump like that. I don't think many here will disagree with me on that one. If you have never driven a mid-high 12 second car, you have absolutely no idea what it is like. And that will be a "Monster" and will kill about 99.5% of the cars on the street. I don't know about you, but it is not often that I line up on the street,(I don't street race, refering to just plain driving), next to a car capable of sub 13 second 1/4 mi. And even if they were, 50-70% of the drivers can't get them to go that fast anyways.

My point? Your aiming for pie in the sky, and it will cost you nearly all of your 10k budget to get a L28ET to put the kinda power required for mid-low 11 second runs down. If you can break into the 12's, not much on the road can even touch you. And that is significantly less money, and much much easier to do.

And BTW, the AEM race unit will not be available for some time, and will cost between $1500-2000 for the unit, harness and such. You are better off going with a SDS, Perfect Power PRS system or similar. But in reality, you are best going with a stock ECU, maybe modified by Jim Wolf, a good FMIC, an upgraded turbo and fuel system and going from there. But that was covered well in the two posts I indicated above.

The reason I bring that up is repetitiveness. People wonder why I harp on those who ask questions that can be easily answered with the search function. The "regulars" with the answers to your questions tire of answering the same question over and over again. You aren't really helping when you are posting essentially the same question you posted last month. It just contributes to clutter.

Not flaming on you Mike, just trying to keep clutter to a minimum.

-Bob

[Guest ON3GO]

oh i repsect ur post, and i understand where your coming from.

Yes i have driven many fast cars, my friend has a 12 sec 1999 Super Sport, my other friend has a 12sec new WRX, i have driven my uncles viper with a crazy Nitrous setup on it, and that car has dipped into the high 11's a few times with bad launches. i have also driven many 12 sec and faster 300zx's and some sick single turbo supras, and trust me once you can handle a single turbo supra from a dead stop you can handle alot of cars on the road.

 

the reason why im asking so many questions and have so many ideas as to which engine i wanna use is because im doing this project just so i can do something with my father.

I dont really wanna bother you guys with details but he is pretty sick and i think this is one way for me to spend some time with him and for us to really do something together. and i really dont want to mess up.

i never plan on selling this car just because i know ill be doing this whole car with my dad and that means alot.

 

im building the motor 1st so that said i have as much money in the budget to spend on it.

i really want this car to be faster then 12's, i really want to be one step ahead of all my friends and where i live there is some crazy fast cars around, and 12's are kinda common..

i mean come on new cars like Z06's and new Cobras are running 12's stock.

 

thanks though

 

mike

[SleeperZ]

Originally posted by ON3GO:

i really want this car to be faster then 12's, i really want to be one step ahead of all my friends and where i live there is some crazy fast cars around, and 12's are kinda common..

i mean come on new cars like Z06's and new Cobras are running 12's stock.

 

thanks though

 

mike

That's why I love driving in Colorado - the cars you mention capable of 12s are only capable of 13s up here in the stratosphere WHERE TURBOS RULE!

[Bob_H]

Mike,

Good reasons, and thanks for the clarification on the budget. With 10k in mind as a max, perferably 6-7k, I think the posts I linked again,(which you are aware of), give you a good starting point to plan. Anything we post here will just be a repeat of those.

To recap:

-Aftermarket EMS, SDS or Perfectpower.com and their PRS-4 or 8 systems,(very cheap for what you get, I think the best deal available for what it does).

-Upgraded Turbo, several options, I'm not going to go there.

-Cylinder head re-work, I recommend a Sunbelt worked P-90 with one of their cams. There are several options here. James' head is from Sunbelt. Don't know about his cam.

-Forged pistons of some kind. Forged is forged for the most part. The top two or three companies aren't that much different other than price. Maybe just slighly over stock bore, like 87 or 87.5mm.

-High quality machine shop to perform much of the heavy duty work.

-Upgraded Fuel system, i.e. injectors,(size depends on turbo size) fuel pump, fuel lines, Swap to HFM vice flapper door, most likely a speed density system as most aftermarket EMS's support.

-Possibly consider some form of custom header....but you can make great power with the stock manifold, it just requires planning and tuning.

-Obviously a custom 3" exhaust from the turbo back.

-eagle rods are fairly cheap,(relatively), but stock rods, properly prep'ed will survive nearly 500hp.

Mix thoroughly and bake at 425 for 15 min and set out to cool.

-Bob

[Guest Zcarsmakemyheadhurt]

Mike I hope you achive your goal with your father thats a great way to bond. The post mentioned and listed below is what I stand by. What I say in that post pretty much sums up what I do to make "monster" power. As for the engine you would be amazed at the amount of power you can produce out of a stock engine, If you stayed with stock dementions and added forged pistons ARP rod bolts grabing a fully ballanced engine assembly you would have a very stout short block that can handle anything you throw at it. Even with cast pistons you could get away with murder, most of us on this forum have. The real attention and money could be spent on the cylinder head, porting it and the intake fully with proper valve geometry will let you make 400+ horsepower with a stock cam. That is with the attention payed to the items metioned on the said previous post. That kind of horsepower will dominate most anything on the street and more is alway available at the flip of a switch to the boost controller once built correctly. Good luck man. Enjoy the ride.

 

http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000960

 

Alex C

[Guest Zcarsmakemyheadhurt]

Dude your in Spring Hill! Like a stones throw from me! I thought I was the only horsepower hungry Z guy in this area, give me a call.

 

Alex Costa

Precision Machined Engines

1-800-665-0406

352-726-5663

[Guest ON3GO]

hey man,

yeah there isnt many Z ppl in our area, and even less old school Z ppl.

i will give ya a call some time this week.

is that your shop?

what does your shop do?

 

mike

[Guest ON3GO]

well i was looking around and i found a great deal on GReddy 720cc injectors.. is that over kill or perfect?

also on those engine management systems, do i still need a Boost controller, and nitrous controller? Because i know the AEM one controls boost, nitrous and fuel.

 

on the exhaust side, where can i get stainless exhaust piping in 3in piping?

and also intake and intercooler piping.

 

Also how much do you charge to make a intercooler Zcarsmakemyheadhurt?

 

Should i get a external wastegate for it? if so which one?

 

now the big question... would a T61 flow enough for say a 11sec run?

 

thanks

 

mike

[Guest Zcarsmakemyheadhurt]

The shop is a 39,000sq foot engine builder I am the fuel injection and turbo specialist. I put together combination's for clients all over the US and caribian. We do everything from small block chevy to 13B turbo rotary's. As for your fuel injector what type of deal are you getting on them? 720 is big but workable depending on your fuel computer, if your getting a real deal go for it. Fuel computer wise I use Accel DFI and am currently working on Microtech fuel injection systems, I am tailor making the wiring harness spacific for the L6 engines. I like the Microtech stuff there computers are running the fastest cars in the world right now and tuning is a snap. I also use Haltech fuel computers with great result. As for the intercooler considering the turbo you are looking to use your gonna need a real bad boy set up, a NPR would work with modification to the end tanks and possiably core work to help flow a higher number. That all depends on the core you go with or if I have to fabricate a intercooler using core sections alone. You could spend anywhere from $800-$1500.00 on intercooler set up. On the subject of the turbo TSO4'S from T58-T76's are big bad boy turbos and I use them on cars looking to make from 600-1500hp if these are the options you are looking at I could build you one no problem but give me a call and we can explore your options and goals a little further.

 

Alex Costa

Precision Machined Engines

1-800-665-0405

[Guest ON3GO]

well really all i want is like maybe 500rwhp.. just because thats good enough for the times im looking for.

i found the injectors at $123 for one. is that good?

 

also i found ISUZU FMIC, alot of supra guys use these on there cars, would that work?

 

i will call ya about the whole fuel system problem. because i found the AEM race EMS for only $1600 i think that would be better then just buying a Blitz SBC-i-D and there Powermeter-i-D, and a S-AFC for fuel... it would save space and i prob would only have to spend maybe 400 bucks more for the whole EMS...which also controls Nitrous and more.

 

mike

[BLKMGK]

Sorry, you didn't find the AEM for that price - it's not yet available. A few eval units have been slipped out the back door to experienced tuners and racers - that's it. You could adapt a PnP unit but frankly with your level of knowledge you're going to need help to do that ($$). Riding in a 12sec car isn't going to give you the experience you need either, I agree small steps would be best.

 

500RWHP on an L28? Hrm it can be done I suppose but I think you underestimate the task. Just because Supras are pulling that power down on a pretty regular basis doesn't mean that it's an ordinary thing. The 2JZ is WAY overbuilt, the L28 isn't as robust. Have you considered swapping to a more robust drivetrain? What will you do for a trans? Rear end?

 

I'm with Bob I guess. You need to better understand what you're getting into and get the basics nailed down.

 

P.S. No MKIV Supra owner I know runs an NPR. Few MKIII Supras run as much as 500RWHP.

[Guest ON3GO]

go on www.optsauto.com and u will find the AEM race EMS unit... if its not forsale then there must be a typo.

Well i heard some supra owners were runing them, and i know of one person on supraforums thats selling them too.

i know the 2JZ is awesome and overdone from the factory, i know alot about MKIV's, heck i was gonna buy one but the car doesnt fit my style of racing...from a stop.

 

rear end i was think a R230.. if thats a bad choice then ill look other places.

 

And yeah theres alot of Supras putting down 500hp and they share the same thing in common as 700hp ones.. they all run 12's

j/k.

 

mike

[Guest ON3GO]

oh... i was thinking of a 7M-GTE, but it would be alot more work and more money, and its a toyota motor in a nissan... doesnt feel right.

im sure the L28ET can put the numbers up with the right parts.. heck if SOHC honda motors can do it so can the L28ET.

 

mike

[BLKMGK]

Suggest you check out the cover of this month's Turbo Magazine - note the street drivable Supra on the cover running 9.0s with a six speed. A local friend of mine on a conservative tune has run 10.7s and ScottieGNZ has seen a few Supra in his area running a bit better than 12s (cough). Don't buy into the hype.

 

The "race unit" displayed for sale is being put up there by a company that took AEM's initial projected price and application list and slapped it on the WEB. They, like more than one other vendor, are in error - that unit isn't available to the common public. I may try to get my hands on one in the near future but my Mustang may get one first, I've not decided. I keep hoping they will release it with the docs I need for my SBC

 

I believe you're underestimating the amount of work that's gone into making many of these Hondas run as much power as they do. You're not going to street drive a 500HP Honda either, not if you want to enjoy the drive anyway. Just because one engine family makes power on a similiar displacement doesn't mean it's easy on another. Research what goes into those high powered Hondas sometime. I still believe Bob was right.

 

My 2JZ put down 390RWHP and 427ftlbs on nothing more than an exhaust and bumped boost. That is probably obtainable with the L28 but as power goes up I believe you'll run into crank issues and certainly the pistons and rods will have to have been swapped out. That's an older motor and parts aren't as plentiful. Price that sometime. Frankly, I don't care who made the motor under the hood but if you care try an RB26DET. You'll probably spend less to make more power

[Guest ON3GO]

I doubt i will spend less on a RB26DETT then a L28ET swap.

i mean 5 to 6k for say the motor and a RB25DET tranny,, and harness. then all the custom work that has to be done to put that motor in. its way over my price range.

and who said i wouldnt build the L28ET? because i am, new pistons, rods, everything i need.

Also i was kidding about the supras from a stop. and yes i know titans supra, hell i was trying to buy a 240sx that they built that runs 12.6's on 18in street tires.

Supras are great cars, there right up there with my fav car which is the Z32 300zx, i love my 300z but its just time for a change.

and i know 500hp hondas arent very streetable at all, but i was making the point that if those motors can make the power with the right parts and tuning then so can a L28ET, also there are a few very streetable Z's on here with L28ET's that run these fast times so again it can be done.

 

lol i miss posting on supraforums .. hell i was the 3rd top poster there not to long ago

 

mike

[Bob_H]

Mike,

Read my response about 500 hp,(much less 500 RWHP), and costs, as well as getting it with the L6,(more important for you is the getting it with the L6). RB or SR20

Breaking parts and the cost to get their will be significant barriers for 500rwhp. You can bump up to 350 rwhp very quickly. high 300's are a little harder. Anything over 400 rwhp in a L6 motors is big bucks and few have done it.

You have driven other peoples cars, but you have never owned a 12 second or faster car. Trust all of us when we say start with the 350 rwhp car and you will be amazed at the performance in the lightweight Z. That is a mid 12 second car. Your money is much better spent getting it running well than getting it running so you can't drive it except on the track with $5-10 a gallon 110 octane race gas.

Be realistic to yourself.

but i was making the point that if those motors can make the power with the right parts and tuning then so can a L28ET

No, just because Honda's are making that much power DOES NOT mean the L28ET can. You are talking about a cross-flow head with 4 valves per cylinder vs. our 2 valve per cylinder non-cross flow head. It is significantly more difficult to get that kinda power from the L6, even with .8L+ more displacement. Take a look at the RB26 and how much eaiser both it and the RB25 can produce big number horsepower vs a L28.

And based on what you are saying about the AEM system, I think you want it because others seem to think it will be the **** when it hits the streets. The reality is that market,(the stand alone computers), is exploding and competition is fierce right now. That is good for us the consumers. Groups like PerfectPower, and Link are offering the same, if not more than the AEM, and often for cheaper. I don't expect Motec's to stay up around $4k for much longer. They will still demand a premium over other systems, but expect the prices to drop over the next few years.

But read my comments in that thread and shoot lower than you are right now for your first real "super-performance" car.

-Bob

[Z-Gad]

This is a good little article I remembered reading on the SDS page regarding "400 horsepower hondas".

http://www.sdsefi.com/tech400.htm