finally starting to soak in

[grumpyvette]

 frank sent me an e-mail, note to tell me about a near miss, he had and , as a result its finally starting to sink in, that the cost vs value of those dirt cheap engine stands is hardly worth the cost saved.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-engine-stand-69520.html


Frank had purchased an engine stand, like this one ,pictured above, from some auto parts store years ago.
well last night Frank was moving an engine mounted on that stand and one of the cheap swivel casters locked up in small flaw in the garage floor,
the result was the engine fell, and frank without thinking in that instant, tried hard to stop it from falling , and sprained his arm rather badly and barely missed crushing his foot!
every engine crane and engine stand Ive ever seen came with crappy steel wheels about 2.5"-3"in diam.
but you have options (yes these adds $80-$100 to the cost of the engine stand) how much do you save by loosing a toe or breaking a foot keeping the cheap crappy casters
 http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-cushion-tire-swivel-caster-with-brake-46819.html

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200305217_200305217

a decent engine stand with decent casters is a far safer tool, and yes both the engine stans shown below need better casters added, but at least they are semi safer designs than the upper engine stand shown

http://www.harborfreight.com/2000-lb-foldable-engine-stand-69521-8970.html


BTW YOULL WANT TO MEASURE  the engine stand legs and bolt hole spacing in the caster mount plate,AND SHOP CAREFULLY, YOULL WANT TWO OF THESE SQUARE U-BOLTS TO LOCK EACH SWIVEL CASTER TO THE ENGINE STAND


READ THESE
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=8443&p=29605&hilit=engine+stand+grade+eight#p29605

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3724

Edited July 3, 2014 by grumpyvette

[FishtailZ]

I used to use those cheap ones but had a near miss just like you describe - had a freshly assembled 289 Ford and was rolling it across the garage floor and the small plastic front caster hit a bolt on the floor and the stand started tipping over. I managed to prevent it but had to call out to a neighbor for help, because I was stuck holding the thing from completely falling to the floor, and I was losing my grip. The neighbor luckily saw right away what was going on and grabbed the other end of the block and helped me set it upright again.

 

Eventually I built my own out of 2x3 rectangle frame stock, with good sized metal casters. I can put a Chrysler 440 on it with full accessories and it doesn't droop at all and rolls easily. Engine stand is one tool you definitely want to spend some money on - buy quality casters and weld one up or have a welding shop make one for you. Will last a lifetime and worth every penny.

Edited July 3, 2014 by FishtailZ

[Six_Shooter]

So instead of blaming the root causes, being a damaged floor and debris on the floor, you blame the engine stand?

 

That's like blaming the spoon for making someone fat.

[260DET]

Yep, before the engine stand and the engine crane are used my garage floor is swept clean, even small things like clipped cable ties can cause problems. For most of us occasional users it's just not worth getting premium gear when with a bit of care (hi Frank)  the medium range budget stuff does the job. Thanks for the reminder though, it's easy to forget that non pro gear is cheaper for a reason.

[grumpyvette]

So instead of blaming the root causes, being a damaged floor and debris on the floor, you blame the engine stand?

 

That's like blaming the spoon for making someone fat.

your missing the point here!

NO engine stand design that is safe too use should have a tendency to tip simply because it has a caster wheel roll over a dropped wrench, or hit a floor seam or some other common shop floor hazard, a properly designed engine stand with decent size swivel casters easily takes that type of obstacle in stride, it should remain stable and have no tendency to tip over. its just not that expensive or difficult to select a decent engine stand and go to the minimal effort required to install decent size and quality casters, that make moving the engine stand with the engine mounted far easier and safer and with far less of a tendency to tip even if it does hit some object on the floor.

yes It does take some extra effort , or expense to buy and install the larger casters or select a engine stand design with a wide base that is far more stable to begin with.

yes we all make choices and price is obviously one factor, but saving $100 or so and working with an engine stand thats inherently unstable is in my opinion a poor choice

adding these caster wheels to all my engine stands made a huge improvement to the shops engine stands

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-cushion-tire-swivel-caster-with-brake-46819.html

 

each of us is free to make our own choices , but having an engine fall and potentially injure me is one I can most likely avoid

Edited July 4, 2014 by grumpyvette

[grumpyvette]

 BTW,how many guys own basic machine tools  like a decent welder and drill press , air compressor , etc/

 http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=10392&p=43018&hilit=miller+252#p43018

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=970

heres a darn impressive and logical custom welding project, I found posted on a different site and finding an older flex-plate or flywheel and a spare starter and gear for use with the engine stand as a  gear drive and adding some custom crank handle, makes the stand more useable.
now I don,t know why I didn,t think of this, its a rather simple modification with easily obtainable components that would make using an engine stand easier.
the pictures, showing what needed to be done is rather self explanatory




the more I look at this work/shop bench, the more I want something similar, built,in my shop!
 and Im sure most of us that have room in the garage could sure use a good solid work bench, OH yeah!
its just a pipe dream at this point ,as my finances won,t currently allow it,  but I,d like ideas from you gentlemen, on how to make the legs have at least some minimal adjustment, to compensate for a floor location that might be just a bit less than exactly level,obviously you could just stuff a shim or two under the legs if required, but having to stuff shims if required is really a less than ideal solution, that a well designed bench should be able to cope with.
 (as I,m sure most guys realize most poured concrete floors are not always perfectly level, over the entire shop floor surface)
Id also like to have a few pull out drawers , added to the design, to keep welding clamps and supplies in and maybe a slide out rack to hold a few tools.
plus some kind of parts list and cost to build something similar.
and having a well braced top with at least a 3/8" steel top surface seems desirable
obviously theres a great many options available and you might want to build it so its easily disassembled for transport??
having the legs bolt in place would allow you to insert washers as spacers on the bolts to adjust the effective leg length IF IT WAS PROPERLY DESIGNED
Id think basic dimensions should be 4ft x 8 ft so you don,t need to cut a sheet of 3/8" steel plate as the top surface, and leg height , made from 3" square 1/4' thick square tube of about 36"-40" seems about right??

IM sure some of you  computer geniuses,who far exceed my meager computer skills , could post a detailed  exploded diagram of bench plans with those features shown?????

Edited July 4, 2014 by grumpyvette

[Six_Shooter]

your missing the point here!

NO engine stand design that is safe too use should have a tendency to tip simply because it has a caster wheel roll over a dropped wrench, or hit a floor seam or some other common shop floor hazard, a properly designed engine stand with decent size swivel casters easily takes that type of obstacle in stride, it should remain stable and have no tendency to tip over. its just not that expensive or difficult to select a decent engine stand and go to the minimal effort required to install decent size and quality casters, that make moving the engine stand with the engine mounted far easier and safer and with far less of a tendency to tip even if it does hit some object on the floor.

yes It does take some extra effort , or expense to buy and install the larger casters or select a engine stand design with a wide base that is far more stable to begin with.

yes we all make choices and price is obviously one factor, but saving $100 or so and working with an engine stand thats inherently unstable is in my opinion a poor choice

adding these caster wheels to all my engine stands made a huge improvement to the shops engine stands

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-cushion-tire-swivel-caster-with-brake-46819.html

 

each of us is free to make our own choices , but having an engine fall and potentially injure me is one I can most likely avoid

 

 

I didn't miss the point at all. Price of a tool has ZERO bearing on how it's used, or what can cause it to malfunction when forced to work in ways it's not supposed to.

 

I have NEVER seen, or used an engine stand that would simply roll over a wrench, or most other debris on a shop floor, and I've used some over priced engine stands.

 

The fact still remains that you're blaming the wrong item for the issue. The problem was not with the engine stand, it was with the floor being in poor repair, or a piece of debris that should have been cleared from the path of the engine stand before it was moved.

 

Paying more for an engine stand does not negate your inability to take due care when performing an operation.

 

It sounds to me more like the wrong engine stand was chosen for the engine that was put on it, not that it was less money. There are different sizes of engine stands for a reason, and that is so that the right engine stand can be used for the right engine that will be mounted on it.

[grumpyvette]

while price alone is not always a good indicator of quality its usually a good bet that the smaller and cheaper engine stands with the smaller wheel bases, like this

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-engine-stand-69520.html?hftref=cj

 

ARE less stable, with the identical engine mounted on them, and that the slightly more expensive stands, that have a larger and wider foot print, like this

http://www.harborfreight.com/2000-lb-foldable-engine-stand-69521-8970.html?hftref=cj

are harder to tip once the engines mounted, due to simple leverage and physics

and that every engine stand Ive seen for sale for under $300  has had really crappy low quality and small diameter casters, and few have caster roll locks, the main point I was trying to make here was that upgrading the casters to the larger size, and better quality and selecting an engine stand with a wide stable base to convert to the use of those larger swivel casters makes it far less likely to be effected by running over minor trash, or floor seams.

 

[FishtailZ]

So instead of blaming the root causes, being a damaged floor and debris on the floor, you blame the engine stand?

 

That's like blaming the spoon for making someone fat.

 

I'm actually blaming both - my lack of tidiness at the time as well as my frugality buying the cheapest POS I could find. My point was to spent a little more and make or buy quality tools. Those cheap 3 caster engine stands really are a bit dangerous, I recommend at least buy the wide stance versions with 4 casters.

[BLOZ UP]

I'm pretty cheap and while the 4 wheeled HF stands mentioned in this thread so far are fine by me, the 3-wheeled ones (also from HF, I think) are pretty unstable even on smooth pavement. I move pretty slow and carefully with a loaded engine stand so I've never had an 'almost' moment, but still, I could just feel the 3-wheeled variant wanted to crush my feet or something so i got rid of it.

[socorob]

A friend of mine has a nice work table like that in his garage, and the coolest thing (at least what I think) is he found one of those wheelchair cranes at a salvage store and modified it and bolted it to the table. Now he has an electric crane that can lift a few hundred pounds up onto the table, and I think he got it for like $45.

[grumpyvette]

  While were talking about the larger shop tools here, If you don,t have a swivel hook,or engine leveler/tilter, trust me it makes the job far easier, to have both
once you do youll wonder why you ever attempted the job without those accessories, without the swivel hook the engine constantly wants to swing back to one location, it fights you constantly, the tilter makes clearing and indexing the engine angle so much easier

buy the 1.5-2  ton rated hook for your engine hoist and grease the swivel center pin on the hook
http://www.mfrexpress.com/alloy-swivel-hoist-hook-crane-hook-safety-latch-15-ton-p-699.html
adding a swivel like this between the leveler and crane GREATLY AIDS THE ENGINES REMOVAL, DON,T GET STUPID or CHEAP, GET THE  3000lb-3500lb rated one not the 1200lb size (REMEMBER YOULL BE UNDER THAT ENGINE SOMETIMES)


  the picture above can be used as a teaching aid, this guys got the engine tilter he needs but its mounted with the tilter too far above the carburetor, limiting the distance the engine can be lifted above the fenders there should be about 2"-3" between the carburetor BASE MOUNT ON THE INTAKE, tilter at most,with the carb removed and the intake opening duct taped closed and lower edge of the engine, intake carburetor mounting pad and having the distributor still installed is still a small risk, that, is best avoided as it could be damaged, its best removed for safety, but the picture also does not have the swivel,hook, and hes using it with the crank handle at the wrong end as it will hit the wind shield in some applications while cranking in that location, rather than having the crank face the crane like it should

 
http://www.mfrexpress.com/alloy-swivel-hoist-hook-crane-hook-safety-latch-15-ton-p-699.html
I think youll find a properly installed swivel hook increases the cranes lift distance as the hook loop can be supported by the bolt thru the crane beam or a screw link and hooked directly into the engine leveler,either option is likely too be shorter than the current few chain links, IN ANY CASE ITS AN OPTION ALMOST ALL MY FRIENDS, AND I , NOW SWEAR BY AS A MANDATORY ACCESSORY  if you get a spare $20 or so, and have the time to order one, I think youll find its money well spent. 

Edited July 9, 2014 by grumpyvette