Oil control and monitoring vitals on LS series engines

[JMortensen]

I got the 15 psi switch. I didn't want it coming on all the time so that I became inured to it. They have a 30 psi switch as well. For oil coolers, I like Coffey's advice. He suggests using a radiator with built in heat exchanger which brings the oil up to temp and keeps it there. I think a monitor is just going to be another gauge. If you're going to run an oil to air cooler, then you should run a thermostat so that the oil gets up to temp on the road. No cooler on mine since I'll be autoxing for a while.

[heavy85]

Here what I've learned from HPDE / Time Trial / Hill climb / Autox an LS1 in my Z for the last 6 years. Its from an '02 Camaro and is stock except for small cam. I added an oil cooler and Accusump several years ago - never measured oil temp but was going off what others were reporting. This is with street, R-comp, and slicks. Accusimp is a 2qt (its hard enough to find enough room for it let alone a 3qt) with 45 psi switch to solenoid with a light wired in to know when it kicks in. Hot idle is right at the switch setting so its either on or flickers at low RPM when oil is hot. Run pan 1 qt overfull. On track it only comes on for a second in high transition or long left hander situation or if you let the RPM get low. As oil level goes down the light comes on more often. It consumes a lot of oil through the PCV. With stock PCV system one catch can helps, two is better, the LS5 valley Cover integrated PCV doesnt help at all. I'll drain about a cup of oil from the catch cans throughout a track day. If you are on a track where gear ratio keeps you way up in the revs and are on real sticky tires, then when you restart it will get a big white/blue oils smoke plume. Freaks you out at first but then realize it just burning off oil condensed in the intake manifold.

 

Have not tried baffled pan but read not too positive results so dont know first hand. Next time I have engine apart will likely add one for good measure.

 

PS - I gave up on LS1Tech years ago

[RebekahsZ]

Thanks-I will dissect each sentence of your input. Unfortunately, LS1tech has just as many posers as our site and as many dummies like me. I'm getting input from the guys I was hoping to hear from, almost to the man. Thanks friends. Follow up questions after I digest some of the recent suggestions. Waiting to see if there is any discussion about your choice of 45 as a minimum oil pressure before Accusump pushes volume into the system.

[heavy85]

I bought the 45 originally and just never dealt with it since .... never made it high enough on the list. Would prefer the 35 instead since with the 45 it flickers at hot idle which is really bad for solenoids.

[260DET]

In all my extensive internet research concerning LSx lube problems I have never seen mentioned (1) head oil scavenge pumps, (2) atmospheric venting of the sump. Hard to believe, is the LSx a deep tech no go area or something?

[mistafosta]

Sorry I missed this thread until now, I'll try to throw in my .02

 

I pulled air into my oiling system due to a non modified ls pan while doing http://youtu.be/CqYkTHhNcNw?list=UUVN2JWzzgBXpzxKo9uzvDew that wheelie. It was a very short amount of time, but on the drive home that night I noticed a decent drop in oil pressure and pulled the motor apart that week. Found a decent amount of bearing damage, and 2 scuffed pistons. (Luckily Rebello does fast and excellent work, so I was back on the road within a few weeks)

 

To keep that from happening again, I did 2 things. First we moved the oil pickup to the rear of the pan, by extending the pickup tube, and creating a new baffle plate. (Nothing very complicated, since this is a street/drag car). Second, I installed an accusump in my fender as I showed the OP in another post.

I run the electric valve, because after talking to accusump, they told me its what is recommended for a street car. I don't use it at all unless I am at the track, since its overkill just driving around on the street. (Hooked up the control valve to my transbrake/2step arm switch, so when I'm racing there is no way to forget it)

 

Since these two mods, I have had zero issues. Probably about 10-15k miles, cross country trips, 50+ 9 second passes, and now 1 8 second pass, without an issue. The accusump pretty much never has issues, and I completely forget it is in the car except when I am changing the oil. (Still, its an easy thing to do with this, just flip on the valve when the car is off before draining, then let it fill on startup)

 

If I was road racing the car, I probably would have built my own baffled pan or used the improved racing pan baffle kit. The thing about the baffle kit I DONT like, is it still uses the front of the sump area for the pickup which I think is a mistake on a high hp rwd car, even in road racing applications.

 

On to oil coolers. I currently run an oil cooler in front of my left wheel. Its not particularly large, but it works pretty well for my setup. I have it hooked up with a thermostat and through an Improved racing low profile oil cooler adapter. (This WILL fit on the sanderson/JCI header setup, its just tight) My accusump line Tees into the oil cooler hoses, which makes setting it up very nice on my car. My car stays cool in 100 degree outside temps while driving pretty much anywhere, (Traffic, freeway, you name it) and it makes a decent amount of heat with a front mount turbo and 402 engine. Oil temps are pretty much always right around 210-215 once the car warms up. I've yet to see more with this setup, no matter what the driving conditions are, and I'm convinced it helps keep my engine nice and cool. I'll see if I can find some pictures of the setup but I'm sure you guys get the idea either way.

[260DET]

So, no comment on (1) direct atmosphere venting of the sump, to reduce the effect of windage on oil drain down, and, (2) head oil scavenge pumps, quite common on performance engines.

Edited October 31, 2014 by 260DET

[RebekahsZ]

Only from you, 260DET.  Please fill us in, sounds like something we need to consider.

 

BTW-the rebuilt LQ4 in my street truck is getting a new set of bearings and a turned crank after only 1000 miles of use.  The block is back at the machine shop hunting for a crack in the block into an oil passage (?).  This is the second set of bearings since the rebuild and the second oil pump, both due to lost oil pressure-something's not right.  I never saw oil pressure drop below 25 on my factory gauge but it stopped going to 60 on start up after 500 miles.  I don't want to get into the truck's problems on this thread, but you can see why I'm interested in monitoring my oiling situation on both my LS-powered vehicles.

[mistafosta]

So, no comment on (1) direct atmosphere venting of the sump, to reduce the effect of windage on oil drain down, and, (2) head oil scavenge pumps, quite common on performance engines.

Please, enlighten us? I have only seen head scavange pumps coupled with a full dry sump system on an ls engine, which is WAY overkill and overpriced for any of the cars in here. Please elaborate on the direct atmosphere venting as well, I've never seen that, but I mostly deal with drag and street engines making 300-1200hp so it might be something from another form of racing.

[rsicard]

Thanks-I will dissect each sentence of your input. Unfortunately, LS1tech has just as many posers as our site and as many dummies like me. I'm getting input from the guys I was hoping to hear from, almost to the man. Thanks friends. Follow up questions after I digest some of the recent suggestions. Waiting to see if there is any discussion about your choice of 45 as a minimum oil pressure before Accusump pushes volume into the system.

KEITH:  Should be able to find a dual left and right kickouts oil pan with 6 trap doors and integral crank scraper welded to the side of the pan versus mounting same to oil pan rail.  I purchased one for my SBC for less that $100.00.  Also using a big block oil pump on this small block engine.  Plenty of oil flow.  Also adding a pressure sensor switch to report and record pressure on my EFI system besides and alarm light.  I will likely go with the electric switch and warning light for accusump kickin.  Won't leave anything to human factors distractions.

[260DET]

The only actual knowledge I have of head scavenge pumps is that they are used on F1 V engines and a BMW V8 of some sort. No doubt there are others. The BMW ones are apparently activated by a lateral operating G switch, the single VDO one on my mates RB30ET switches on at 3000 engine RPM which seems to do the job. Such pumps can be mounted outside of the engine, a bit lower than their pickup point would be good. The pickup could simply consist of a fitting screwed into a low oil point, usually at the back of the head and connected to the pump via some flexible hose.

 

Venting from the crankcase directly to the atmosphere used to be standard practice prior to the dreaded anti pollution laws, the earlier Datsun L6 engine for example. Air venting to the atmosphere goes through some steel wool and that's it. The advantage of such a system in my mind is that crankcase pressure will be much less likely to blow up into the heads so impeding oil down flow. Whatever, there does not seem to be any potential disadvantage in using such a system, other than the pollution angle of course.

 

Depending on a few things I may be in a position next year to try both ideas. Having decided not to go dry sump I sure as hell don't want to damage my brand new shiny LS3. Comments?

Edited November 8, 2014 by 260DET

[mistafosta]

I run a vented crankcase breather system, as do most v8 swap people. The issue we are battling here is not low oil due to retention in the heads, it's a terrible pickup design by Chevy mostly. Neither of these items would fix the issue we are trying to address

[260DET]

That's interesting, the pickup problem, drag racing? My background is circuit lapping, time attack, which of course has different requirements. I think someone here mentioned putting the pickup right at the back of the sump for drag racing. But the stock LS pickup is a rough piece of work, made in Canada or shouldn't that be mentioned

[RebekahsZ]

I don't think it hurts anything and its a little outside the scope of this thread, but I get a little blue smoke from my tail pipe when engine braking. I think it is because I am not vented to atmosphere but rather the stock GTO PCV crankcase venting into the intake stream before the throttle body. I think the high vacuum on decel is what really sucks on the PCV system. Puke can is on the list to try to keep my car from looking like it is worn out.

Edited November 8, 2014 by RebekahsZ

[JMortensen]

Venting from the crankcase directly to the atmosphere used to be standard practice prior to the dreaded anti pollution laws, the earlier Datsun L6 engine for example. Air venting to the atmosphere goes through some steel wool and that's it. The advantage of such a system in my mind is that crankcase pressure will be much less likely to blow up into the heads so impeding oil down flow. Whatever, there does not seem to be any potential disadvantage in using such a system, other than the pollution angle of course.

I've read quite a few negative things about venting the crankcase in the valley cover on LS1tech.com, but no personal experience. tube80z had some pictures of an LS1 which had additional drains in the front and the back of the head, but they were simple tubes fitted and run down to the oil pan. Not sure if that is worth it or not. Still trying to figure out what to do with PCV too. I really like the idea of vacuum to the crankcase and not sending the oily air back into the intake, but I don't know that I am going to make that happen on mine. Maybe if one of you guys does it I'll copy you.

[thezguy]

Crank case venting is important for any "high hp" car. Sending an oily mixture back into your combustion chamber is in no way a good idea. The CCV setup on a NA LS motor is as simple as it gets. Using a vented catch can on an NA motor makes zero sense to me. You have a constant vacuum, use it to your advantage. Pick a decent brand non vented catch can and mark it off your list of mods to the car.

[260DET]

On adding head oil drain down's, relying on gravity would be better than nothing but still subject to the usual forces that cause the problem in the first place. They would have to be a fair size too which makes effective installation more difficult and expensive.

 

If, if, I do anything it will involve two electric scavenge pumps switched by the Haltech ECU. Smaller lines, just drill and tap the heads at the back.  Unfortunately my Z is in storage while I work on the house, not happy, Z is more important than any house

[heavy85]

Crank case venting is important for any "high hp" car. Sending an oily mixture back into your combustion chamber is in no way a good idea. The CCV setup on a NA LS motor is as simple as it gets. Using a vented catch can on an NA motor makes zero sense to me. You have a constant vacuum, use it to your advantage. Pick a decent brand non vented catch can and mark it off your list of mods to the car.

If you are pushing hard enough, even two catch cans (one in each line) is not enough to keep oil out of your intake. For 99% of the world probably would be great. Still not enough for me. Need to keep noodling on this some more as I would prefer not to open vent the crankcase.

[RebekahsZ]

I'm not sure if everybody here is talking from LS experience anymore or perhaps just in theory. A couple questions: 1) if pulling crankcase fumes into the intake stream is all that bad, why does GM tolerate it on all their cars? 2) Can I expect some measurable performance gain from capping the PCV port on the throttle body and venting directly from the valve cover to a puke can? 3) somebody was suggesting a vacuum line to the puke can?? 4) by what pathway does the intake fill with oil? What part of the intake fills with oil?

[thezguy]

I'm not sure if everybody here is talking from LS experience anymore or perhaps just in theory. A couple questions: 1) if pulling crankcase fumes into the intake stream is all that bad, why does GM tolerate it on all their cars? 2) Can I expect some measurable performance gain from capping the PCV port on the throttle body and venting directly from the valve cover to a puke can? 3) somebody was suggesting a vacuum line to the puke can?? 4) by what pathway does the intake fill with oil? What part of the intake fills with oil?

Yes I am talking about LS motors. GM tolerates it becuase the EPA says they have too. Dumping oily vapors back into your air intake has obvious disadvantages. Will you see a measurable difference? Probably not but after years and years of dumping it in there there is a clear build up that takes place in the intake runners of the heads. It will and does restrict air flow over a large period of time. I have seen heads with and with out PCV systems and it is night and day. The best way is to use vaccum to pull CC pressure and have it collected in a puke can.