Tony D Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Bo, you might want yo reference the name of that shop... I recall someone recently looking but not finding anybody willing to,do older cars. I know I have two that could use a tug to be straight again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 The shop is called State Frame Shop and is located in Montclair. It's a tiny place in an older part of the area, they don't have specialized laser equipment, etc., but that is where the other body shops say to go. I'll review them once I get my car back next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Totally agree on keeping the "RV" or higher AAA membership for the towing alone, but unless you have some special "stated value" insurance (which are dubious in their own ways), I doubt that your collision insurance would have done you much good - they likely would have totalled your Z at some ridiculously low value anyway and paid out almost nothing. I found this out the hard way with my 93 Taurus SHO - which was in really good condition. Some dude hit my rear bumper while I was backing out in the parking lot and scraped up the rear fascia, with no other real damage. Body shop estimated ~$1000 to repair, but insurance would have totalled the car at $700 (!). Did I mention that this car was in really good condition? Didn't matter. Given my $500 deductible they only would have paid out $200. I sourced a good condition rear fascia and fixed it myself for about $350 (including repainting but not accounting for my labor). After that I too cancelled my collision coverage and now pay less per year than the $200 they would have covered anyway. All that said - I'm really sorry to hear about your car. Agreed value insurance is the way to go on these cars. You can't daily it but some companies are less restrictive than others. And while I've never had to file a claim to prove it, I've scoured over my Hagerty agreement and see nothing against taking it to work every once and a while. If you're daily driving then you need some kind of regular old insurance, but comprehensive is not going to be worth it in that case anyway. So (daily driving excluded) it's either paying less for agreed value with (a chance of, if you don't think it covers some driving) full payout, or paying more for just liability and a guaranteed zero payout. If you have a separate daily as most people here do, this should be a no-brainer. Plus I added unlimited flat-bed, soft strap towing for my covered classic vehicles. A little more per year and it covers all my vehicles. I've used it 4 times in 3 months this year with great service. Edited November 13, 2014 by BLOZ UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayson260z Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I hate to be the one to ask but if you have the time and feel like it I think we would all be interested in seeing pics of the aftermath. Super glad you're going to have her put back into commission! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'll post the before and after pictures when I get the car back from the shop next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Read Haggerty again, theirs is a "pleasure driving" policy. That typically by definition excludes commuter usage. You can daily drive a Haggerty Insured car just not to work more than once maybe twice a week if pursuant to maintenance. I routinely drove my Z on every Thursday of the month. Each night there was a Z-Club meeting, and I would come in later to the office, stay later, then go directly to the Meeting, I specifically inquired about that and it was permissible. They added that the policy is NOT for commuting. They don't put a mileage limit on it because they understand people who live in ice and snow simply can't drive as much as someone in Arizona or California where you can easily put 10,000 miles on the car driving for only pleasure, and another 26,000 commuting in a separate vehicle. Going to ZCON two years running, I put 14,000 and 18,000 miles on the car ONLY to and from the event. Plus what I drove for club events and MSA (1000 miles that weekend alone!).... A stated mileage policy would not allow those mileages without a specific rider for the event added at additional cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Read Haggerty again, theirs is a "pleasure driving" policy. That typically by definition excludes commuter usage. I don't recall seeing any definition of either pleasure driving or commuting. Then again it's little me against their entire claims department. Like I said, I've never been in a position to test it, I was just saying it's not spelled out in the agreement. You can daily drive a Haggerty Insured car just not to work more than once maybe twice a week if pursuant to maintenance. I routinely drove my Z on every Thursday of the month. Each night there was a Z-Club meeting, and I would come in later to the office, stay later, then go directly to the Meeting, I specifically inquired about that and it was permissible. They added that the policy is NOT for commuting. So years ago when I signed up I asked about driving to work and got a general "You can drive it but you need to have a regular commuter with separate insurance" response. I drove it once every other Friday or so this past summer to work. But I was also data logging the entire trip, so really I was acting as the mechanic and working out issues. Edited November 14, 2014 by BLOZ UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 "So years ago when I signed up I asked about driving to work and got a general "You can drive it but you need to have a regular commuter with separate insurance" response." That, defines the vehicle as "pleasure use" -- specifically disclaiming use as a commuter. The downfall of collector insurance before Haggerty (Traverse City, Michigan...) got into the game was the mileage restriction meant for Horseless Carriages and things of that ilk. It was written on an outdated model of what a collector really was... Haggerty realized that, even in Michigan during the summer months guys with 60's era muscle cars that were not trailering them to events could EASILY rack up 3,000 miles. They knew that the joy in a collector car is not being restricted to a trailer but to drive it. And that when you are driving to a specific event-show, club meeting, etc, that you are in a completely different frame of mind, and driving in drastically different traffic conditions than normal commuting. This was the key to their offering the new "no mileage restrictions pleasure driving use" policies on collector vehicles. If you look even into AAA policies, they make you designate COMMUTER USE and PLEASURE USE (which they define in the policy of driving 3 or more days a week to work)... If it's your only vehicle, it will be VERY difficult to get the car classified as 'Pleasure Use' by AAA or even Haggerty. One vehicle dictates that it's your commuter. Two vehicles and you suddenly have 'commuter' and 'pleasure' cars. AAA Uses reported mileage for the distinctions. You can have two identical cars (say....1974 260's with identical mileages a year '0ver 7,500 less than 10,000') and they will have a different rate for the year due to the implied usage. That's really the root of all Collector Vehicle Insurance. When you look at it, for the benefits you get compared to conventional coverage... It's a no-brainer if you have more than one car and are not intending to drive it daily to work. If you are, then a conventional policy with stated value would be in order (given proper appraisal beforehand for proof of valuation, etc.) JeffP was very upset with Haggerty when he found they wanted $647 a year to insure his car. Yeah, because he put a stated value on the car of $75,000! He said "I don't save anything over conventional insurance" which is incredibly short-sighted. They won't total the car with Haggerty--the policy on stated-value is repair (including using used parts if necessary) to as stated condition. That check can be cut for a LOT more than ANY conventional insurer would EVER consider for a fender-bender. I know Haggerty paid for an ENGINE OVERHAUL when there was an engine fire! Something happened on a Boat Tail Buick, and a Car-B-Que started...Owner opened the hood before being shooed away (he knew that Axe was coming out after his hood!) and the Fire Department deluged the engine extinguishing the flames. The car got impounded and was towed. Eventually it got back to his house he got the body quotes and the adjuster came to check it out. Adjuster said "have you pulled the plugs?" He never would have thought to do that.... So while the adjuster was there he quickly pulled the plugs, and on 3 of them there was clear signs of rust on them...... Adjuster said "Well, I'm going toapprove your claim on the body, with a supplemental note that the engine ingested water--you need to get the engine torn down, don't just crank it over, there could be rust on your cylinders and you will screw up all your prior machine work! Get that engine torn down and see what you need. My experience after sitting this time you are looking at three liners and an engine overhaul to restore that engine plus the carb...I don't think you will get a crate engine but any shop should be able to do the work." And ended up getting an engine overhaul for what he thought would be simply body work. Indeed the bores were pitted heavily from some chemical in what the FD sprayed on the car to put down the fire. There is a BIG difference between the conventional policies and how they handle older cars, and Haggerty. Or some of the others. I was impressed by their service and the knowledge of the adjuster on things automotive. If you haven't had the necessity to use their claims people---consider yourself fortunate! It really is good luck. Then again, knowing that kind of expertise (your service may vary...LOL) is in their corps of adjusters is somewhat comforting. I'm sure there are people who are PO&B over their claims experience... But from what I've seen with them and their rates, AND flexibility for storage and odd insurance underwriting requests... I was sold on them. I really only have two cars with AAA now, and that may go to one (2002 Ford) simply because I don't even go 7,500 miles a year on them... It's nearly impossible to do so. Though I did drive from Phoenix to Pittsburgh in 39 hours straight through last January...that got some miles on the F150...and it's not exactly something Haggerty WANTS to start covering! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Ok, as I stated following are the before and after pictures of the car. I just picked her up from State Frame Shop in Ontario/Montclair. They did an amazing job on the car. As a matter of fact, I found out that they do all of the frame work for Dale's Restoration. When I drove up they had a Pantera on the rack and worked on three (3) Sunbeam Tiger's before tackling my car. I thought I wanted to replace the core support, but I think I'll go with a custom removable support bar now. I have all the body panels for the car and even scored a straightened and rechromed front bumper. Thank you all for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) I got three to run through there! What was the bill? Edited December 7, 2014 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisssmo510 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Pretty awesome to find a shop that still wants to work and not total everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The shops will do whatever you pay them to do. It's insurance companies limiting their casualty losses making the financial decision to pay out and "total the vehicle" as a loss rather than repair it. I have seen the same GT40 go backwards into the same wall and be broken in two THREE CONSECUTIVE YEARS RUNNING, yet every year it's rebuilt to as new and returns for the race. Last scuttlebutt was it cost a bit over $1.1 million dollars to do it the last time. You don't need insurance if you have money and fix it yourself. I've got a '90 Z32 2/2 in a container that's proof of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Pretty awesome to find a shop that still wants to work and not total everything. If you are paying out of pocket, nothing is totaled. When I told the shop that it was coming outta my pocket, they were quite sympathetic. Did that influence their quote? Maybe, but they did a great job. I'll post a progress pic next week. I've done a lot of hammer and dolley work to make things better, smoothed the driver's side inner fender a lot with some filler and sanding, etc. Once the radiator and hoses come and I take 'er for a quick spin, I'll finish up the work and post a pic. Edited January 6, 2015 by ktm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Just saw this thread after making a run to Pizza Hut in the 280Z28. Normally don't drive the car this time of year but winter has been extremely mild so far this year so took the car out. Found out that cold, nearly frozen, asphalt and high performance summer tires just don't get along very well. I broke loose more times in that one short trip than probably all of last summer. Just another confirmation that cold weather is not our friend. Good to hear that you'll be able to save your car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socorob Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Agreed value insurance is the way to go on these cars. You can't daily it but some companies are less restrictive than others. And while I've never had to file a claim to prove it, I've scoured over my Hagerty agreement and see nothing against taking it to work every once and a while. If you're daily driving then you need some kind of regular old insurance, but comprehensive is not going to be worth it in that case anyway. So (daily driving excluded) it's either paying less for agreed value with (a chance of, if you don't think it covers some driving) full payout, or paying more for just liability and a guaranteed zero payout. If you have a separate daily as most people here do, this should be a no-brainer. Plus I added unlimited flat-bed, soft strap towing for my covered classic vehicles. A little more per year and it covers all my vehicles. I've used it 4 times in 3 months this year with great service. I used to have Haggerty and asked the agent about this. He said you can only drive to car events, mechanics shops, etc. I switched to American Collectors and they have plans based on mileage. I think the highest mileage plan is like 7,500 miles a year, but you get a lot more freedom with what you can do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I used to have Haggerty and asked the agent about this. He said you can only drive to car events, mechanics shops, etc. I switched to American Collectors and they have plans based on mileage. I think the highest mileage plan is like 7,500 miles a year, but you get a lot more freedom with what you can do with it. Interesting. I should shop around and see. I only drove my Z 2,000 miles or so in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Interesting how different countries have different standards for what is usual in insurance. Here both the cars I pay insurance on, the farm van my mother and sister use as a daily driver and farm hack, and my daily driver, a 1985 honda accord, are on agreed value. So the van, which I bought around 10 years ago for 7000, with agreed value of 7000 covering it as per the finance companies insistance to cover their asses if it got totaled with money owing, now has a market value of 2000 or so and a depreciated agreed value of 5000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Insurance makes a LOT more sense to me in Commonwealth Nations like UK, Oz, Singapore, etc... My bud in Liverpool had an engine fire in his Rivera Boat Tail, and really made out with the UK Historic Coverage he had as it was for 'restoration'... engine was on fire as water was deluged into it, and adjuster asked him to pull the plugs since he hadn't run it since. Found rust on 3 plugs scoped out with a torch and said "we will cover the parts for an engine overhaul if you will cover the labor" guy was shocked...he just wanted the paint and physical damage fixed. Never even THOUGHT about the engine ingesting water! Found most down below OK, but you order for the worst and since he was ordering from JEGS and Summitt Racing, and having me trans shipping in dense-packed surface freight he ended up with about 1/10th the cost of the shipping! It also helped that all the parts were out of their boxes and listed as "loose parts, one lot, surplus engine overhaul"... Those Brits and their aversion to taxes, you swear they'd almost dump their tea in the harbor over them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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