Guest Anonymous Posted July 29, 2000 Share Posted July 29, 2000 2.3L turbo ford? 2.2L turbo Dodge? in a zx body? I just purchased a 83 280zxt, and the engine is in a million pieces/needs to be rebuilt. I'm not really looking for the 5mpg and the difficulties of cramming a big 8 cylinder. Any advice or ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarp Posted July 29, 2000 Share Posted July 29, 2000 5 mpg ???? hey I'm getting 28 on the h/w in overdrive with a built 302 chevy and putting a chevy v8 in is really simple as it has been done time and again. well a few times in the zx but the 2.3 ford or 2.2 dodge hmmm you may have a real hard time with them good luck [This message has been edited by scarp (edited July 29, 2000).] [This message has been edited by scarp (edited July 29, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 29, 2000 Share Posted July 29, 2000 the dodge turbo isn't to powerfull granted.. and has a pretty bad history for reliability. The ford turbo I've read is pretty powerfull and can push 250 hp easily and cheaply. I was exagerating with the 5mpg, 20 is rather good. But it seems like I'll need to chop the crossmember, or have the engine sit to far forward, and make the swap useless. Also, getting a 350 & tranny is easy, but to balance the weight out, all the aluminum parts add up $$ really fast, I was looking for something lighter on the frame/weight balance, and on the pocket. I have an Zxt engine that I recieved with the car, but its totally apart, and there's a good deal of stuff missing. I figured if I'm going to blow all this money rebuilding and finding/buying new parts for this engine, why not go 350, but the car being a ZX I'm looking for something that will work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 How about a 90-98 Eclipse/Talon/Laser (not all years for the last two models) turbo 4cyl. A few are pulling 3000+ lb AWD cars into the mid 9s. Check out www.extrememotorsports.com This guy's shop is a few miles away from me. Pretty impressive. Must be over 500hp. The Mitsu 4cylinder 4G3? is pretty nice. Change those balance shaft and timing belts often though! Not sure what you'd do for an tranny, but Dave Buschur put a power glide behind one when he built a RWD Eclipse. Yeah, I have a 92 Eclipse GSX (AWD Turbo). Fun, but mostly stock. Nice commuter car. ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@home.com">pparaska@home.com - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Paradox, If you decide on a 4 banger I would suggest the 2.3 Ford motor from an S.V.O. Mustang, T-bird turbo coupe, or Mercur XR4TI. These motors were extremly strong to start with & they can put out more power than you can imagine. 250 h.p. could be achevied with very few mods. 300-350 h.p. can be achevied with more $. With a good head gasket and plenty of fuel they'll stay together. Most of these cars came with T-5 trannys, though they had extremly low first gears (4.03). As for the Dodge 2.2 Turbo, I never saw a modifided one stay together. It used cast pistons & from what little I know about them they were nothing more than a normal 2.2 with a turbo installed. As for Pete's suggestion the Laser/Talon/Eclipse motors were real strong and have tons of potential but I dont know what you'd use for a tranny. These were all front wheel drive or all wheel drive. In fact I can't think of any good 4 bangers other than the Ford that were rear wheel drive. If you decide to go with the Ford I'll be glad to clue you in on what years to use for various parts. There's good OE stuff out there but you need to know what they came in. I built up an 86 S.V.O. so I have experience with these. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 The talon/eclipe engines is a good idea espcially for aftermarket support, but I have no clue how I could change it to RWD. I'm going to do some research. Glenn- I've got a million questions! What years/parts should I look for? Does it make a difference what model (mercury, ford, or merkur) I pull the engine from? How much would 250hp cost roughly? What about 350? What did you run? Do you have any pictures? I've heard about a guy name Joe Morgan who's somewhat known in the 2.3 turbo crowd. I have yet to find his set up, he's always posting messages on the turboford website. Do you know anything about his setup? Oh yea, Do you think the oilpan will clear the zx crossmember (i.e. not a dual sump like 302's)? Thanks for the help!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 I have to agree with Scarp. I get mid to high 20 mpg. The V8 swap is a clean and relatively easy transformation... and kits/ manuals are availible. The engines you mention would be unique, and if that's what your looking for, then by all means do it. I put mine together w/o any reference to a kit or book, and believe me there was a lot of problem solving to do. You will have more hurdles to jump than I did when it comes to unique transmissions, drivelines, mounts, wiring etc. Again, it could be done, but it won't be as straight forward as the V8 conversion. Also, since the Ford and Dodgeturbo engines aren't very high on the hp chart anyway, why not just replace it with a complete turbo Z engine? They can make lots of power and everything would be a bolt in. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 1, 2000 Share Posted August 1, 2000 If MPG is a worry than a hopped up 2.3 Ford is going to get at least as bad a gas mileage as a V8. It takes so much air and so much fuel to make so much HP - the Ford isn't THAT much more effecient. It also idles a litle rough and has crappy torque. How much does the ZX weigh sans engine? If you can't deal with a V8 I'd seriously consider a 300ZX turbo motor instead - at least you know it all fits and the 87-89 motors are apparently fairly cheap. I'm a Ford guy myself but if I was going to do a 2.3 turbo swap into anything it would be a Pinto not a Z.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted August 1, 2000 Share Posted August 1, 2000 Agree with everything BLKMGC says including the recommendation. The 300ZXT does not get any respect and understandably so. Nissan choked it down with the same turbo from the 280 which was too small to begin with and put it in a 3300lb car. There is so much potential corked up in that engine begging to be set free. As for the Talon/Eclipse turbo, that is an awesome engine that can make tons of HP. To run it as a RWD, you use a Supra transmission. Dont know the details of the adaptation, but there is a shop in Miami that runs the World's Quickest FWD DSM and one of the cars in the stable is a DSM/Supra-powered Toyota Corolla. Contact them if you want to go that route. http://www.wrightouch.com/timeslips/timeslips.html ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z http://www.mindspring.com/~vscott911/gnz.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 1, 2000 Share Posted August 1, 2000 Why not do the grand national engine? Good mileage, insane power, not as big... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 Who says the Dodge Turbo isn't too powerful? They're running 12's by increasing boost and adding an intercooler, and even quicker with simple mods, similar to the Ford 2.3 turbo www.turbogearhead.com/info/slips/slips_main.htm People I know who own them haven't had reliability problems. Not trying to start a flame war, just wanted to clear up some not quite true statments Would be an interesting swap but I personally am a V8 guy all the way! quote: Originally posted by Paradox: the dodge turbo isn't to powerfull granted.. and has a pretty bad history for reliability. The ford turbo I've read is pretty powerfull and can push 250 hp easily and cheaply. [This message has been edited by John Adkins (edited August 01, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 6, 2000 Share Posted September 6, 2000 I was exagerating with the 5mpg, 20 is rather good. But it seems like I'll need to chop the crossmember, or have the engine sit to far forward, and make the swap useless. Also, getting a 350 & tranny is easy, but to balance the weight out, all the aluminum parts add up $$ really fast, I was looking for something lighter on the frame/weight balance, and on the pocket. I have an Zxt engine that I recieved with the car, but its totally apart, and there's a good deal of stuff missing. I figured if I'm going to blow all this money rebuilding and finding/buying new parts for this engine, why not go 350, but the car being a ZX I'm looking for something that will work better.[/b] Well having a 350 280ZX the crossmember/rear steering rack certainly is a pain in the ass as your motor does end up sitting about 1" higher than I'd like. Leaves minimal hood clearance but it all can be dealt with etc. I've run mine at 300hp for a few years now with a drop down aircleaner and am finally going to drop it down that 1" (had my pan clearanced somewhat) to open up the inlet path. Be sure to price out full costs of other motors/setups as most parts you'd likely buy would be similar for either conversion IMO (radiator/driveshaft/fan etc) besides the actual motor. Lt1's aren't that pricey these days and are a fine lighter weight setup as is any base chevy shortblock with aluminum heads and the intakes are available used along with many other parts. My V8 280ZX was 49/51 weight balance with iron heads and a large truck battery up front (for the ex-stereo). Moving my battery into a toolpocket and going aluminum heads changed this to 50/50 with very enjoyable handling. This is with crossmember stock (I have non power rack'n'pinion fwiw). My engine mounts sit directly above my crossmember (easy mount setup) and it's as close to my firewall as I'd like it. My hood latch is stock and my dizzy slides in underneath it for easy servicing as well, my bellhousing/flange is v. close to being flush to my firewall and I have lots of room left up front for electric fan and daylight:-) Lots of motors can be fun, just wanted you to know how a sbc can be fitted in and run (4 yrs daily driver now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 6, 2000 Share Posted September 6, 2000 there was a bunch of stuff in Hot Rod magazine last year about the 2.3 turbo ford, including an article on Joe Morgan's Pinto. if i remember right, he's basically running a bigger turbo with nitrous oxide and pushing about 400 horse on the bottle. i think he's got a ranger with the same (or similar) setup. an added bonus for him is that the 2.3 motor is cast in brazil, which techinically makes him eligible to compete in import drags and beat up on all the rice (which he enjoys doing). there's a bunch of intormation in that issue of Hot Rod about which 2.3 motors are the good ones, but i don't remember which month it was. check for it at a library or something. quote: Originally posted by Paradox: What years/parts should I look for? Does it make a difference what model (mercury, ford, or merkur) I pull the engine from? How much would 250hp cost roughly? What about 350? What did you run? Do you have any pictures? I've heard about a guy name Joe Morgan who's somewhat known in the 2.3 turbo crowd. I have yet to find his set up, he's always posting messages on the turboford website. Do you know anything about his setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYRON Posted September 6, 2000 Share Posted September 6, 2000 Paradox, If my memory serves me correct there is only about a 120lb difference in a L6 and an all cast iron V8. I have a 77 280 and to offset the weight I used an aluminum intake,headers,water pump. I also removed the factory bumpers and the bumper mounts. I am sure that I got back at least 100 lbs of that. Plus If you go with a light weight tire and wheel combo you can save more weight. I also removed the Factory A/C components and saved even more weight. I do not know what the car weighs right now but i will weigh it soon.. Myron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 6, 2000 Share Posted September 6, 2000 The way I see it, there are at least the following questions you must ask yourself. The answers will clearly guide you to your motor size choice: 1) Do you want lots of low end torque? I mean, torque that is in the high 200 ft lb range at speeds below 3000 rpm. If you do, there are two ways to do it. One is a large displacement engine (V8), the other is a smaller displacement engine with super or turbo charging that is set up VERY well to get low speed torque and responsiveness. The latter is NOT easy or cheap to do, in my belief. But I may be wrong. Please enlighten me. Of course, either work great at the drag strip once set up correctly. Just look at the recent turbo small block cars/trucks in the NMCA drag championships. The turbo V8 guys are kicking butt! 2) Do you want an easy swap (as far as complexity in getting that torque curve) or a more high tech, but more difficult to set up car? The V8 is very simple to get the low and high rpm torque and power out of, the boosted smaller motors, less so. 3) Do you want to live with a car that may melt down if you push it too hard? This is an issue with highly boosted engines in the tuning stages, and not so with normally aspirated engines if built with reasonable compression ratios. 4) Do you want to do a highly documented swap (Chevy small block), or show off your ingenuity by doing something different? Either is valid, but one is easier and has more available support, while the other is more of a challenge and a chance to show off your talents. Don't forget that things like intercoolers, intercooler piping, turbos, etc. add weight as well. So when doing your weigh calculations, make sure you are figuring the complete swap, not just the long block. Think about how you'll use the car. If going drag racing, anything that makes gobs of power is fine, and a lighter setup is obviously better from a weight and weight transfer point of view. If you are driving on the street, and want to be able to hammer the car from 2000 rpm and feel an immediate surge, it's easier to do with larger displacement (V8) normally aspirated engines. Just some food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted September 6, 2000 Share Posted September 6, 2000 Paradox, The question isn't what we think, as I can sit you in my car and have you drive it and find out for your self how "Balanced" a small block chevy is. Further, it is BY FAR the simplest of the conversions to do to a Z or ZX, as the 200+ members of this site can all atest to. Here is the question, What do you really want to do? Do you just want something different than the usuall small block Chevy in your car? If that is the case then state it, and no harm, no foul, you will get the right info from the right guys. However, trust me on this one, as I'll bet large sums of cash on it, going dollar for performance dollar, you will get 250HP cheaper with a small block Chevy than you will with any of the powerplants you mentioned. And complexity of a turbo setup compared to a non-turbo.... Lots of hair to be lostin the mix between start and finish of that type of project... My $.02 worth. Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 7, 2000 Share Posted September 7, 2000 Paradox, I had an S.V.O. Mustang with the 2.3 turbo motor in it. It made 200hp & 250 ft lbs of torque from the factory in 86. In order for Ford to get this power from a 2 valve iron headed 2.3 they gave it 15 lbs of boost from the factory. It needed premium gas or else it pinged. Power was good by 3000 rpms but there was plenty of lag and throttle response sucked. It was a blast to drive though. Mine had two chamber flowmasters and no cat on it & was still real quiet. It also got great gas mileage as long as you stayed out of boost. With only minor mods it powered the car to high 14's to low 15's with hot Az track conditions. I did go through several clutches but I was in my late teens & used the clutch to compensate for the turbo lag. The only thing that I broke on the motor was a blown head gasket & that was from a bad fuel pump & happened during the peak of summer in Az. The 2.3 is bullet proof. The T-5 that came in the car was not the strongest (4.03 first gear) but it worked good. 250 reliable h.p. is extremly resonable and inexpensive. With the right mods you can easily get 300 h.p. out of it. On my recent trips to the bone yard I've seen several Mercur XR4TI's and T-bird Turbo Coups. They had the same motor as the S.V.O.'s but the Mercur had no intercooler from the factory so boost was lower. The later T-birds used a different turbo but other than that they were the same. Mustangs & Mercurs used a Garret T-3 turbo & that I believe is what the Buick GN's had. Scottie?? I bet you could pick up one of these motors real cheap & I don't think a rebuild would cost that much. The factory pistons & rods were forged. The cranks were cast but never caused problems. As for my opinion here it goes: I learned to realy enjoy the turbo four. It had a a nice power band from 3000-6000 rpm but the lack of low end torque sucked. It was also pretty inconsistent. When it was cold out (the colder the better) it ran like a raped ape but when it got hot it felt more like my dads nissan p/u. I opted for a Chevy 355 for my z. I love the low end torque of a V8 but with the right stuff it will rev to 6500 rpm maybe higher if I dare. The weight differnce shouldn't be that much. I've got the small starter, aluminum heads, water pump, & intake. The conversion is realitively simple with the J.T.R. kit & very little fabrication is needed. And the Chevy motor really looks like it belongs in there. Its also pretty easy to work on. You can easlly axcess just about any thing that requires attention. There is also something to be said about a low tech non computerized motor. No lap top required. Everyone remember now this is my opinion. If you do decide to go with the 2.3 I will give you any support I can. That includes what years had the right parts & aftermarket stuff. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted October 25, 2000 Share Posted October 25, 2000 i am a ford dealer tech that drives a z.best ford turbo engine was a 87 or 88 tbird intercooled .had biggest injectors and best intercooler.the l28 is easy to assemble-i would put it back together.if the oem injection wiring is messed up i woild install an aftermarkit efi system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.