1vicissitude Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) I was in contact with AST, who bought Moton, and they would make a custom 4100 series with weld in adaptors for $3000, I imagine doubles would be another grand or some on top of that. Essentially what 949racing sells as their base Xida miata coilover, which couldn't have better reviews. Hit up feal suspension, they make an s30 aplication with weld in tubes and swift springs for $1350, Odi really knows his stuff. he can make doubles or whatever you need and can afford. It''s all custom built, he can tune it to do whatever your desire. http://fealsuspension.com/page15.php I second Jon's opinion of Stance. If you are serious they shouldn't be on your list. http://www.hancheyvehicletech.com/category/HVT+Coilovers.html or HVT is another option. They are supposedly a step up from the 1st gen AST xida and now are the manufacturer of the second gen. Very good stuff and they can make custom applications. penske is good stuff, but not for those without shop/factory support. AST or HVT will get you there for much cheaper, granted ~$5000 is still a lot of coin. Edited March 9, 2015 by 1vicissitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) I second Jon's opinion of Stance. If you are serious they shouldn't be on your list. Funny, both you and Jon use the same logic to discredit Stance as I do to shine a little light on them. No I've not tested their new stuff but have you guys? Just trying to stay objective here... Edited March 9, 2015 by Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I've offered to test Stance, Megan, KSport, etc. for customers who want me to recommend them. Just send me four shocks and pay for my time and shock dyno rental time and you'll get a 8 page report with dyno graphs. It will cost about $1,900 plus your cost of the shocks and related shipping, No one has ever stepped up. And the manufactures said, "Not interested" when contacted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I am not interested in investing my own time and money in testing the shocks listed above. I have personally tested, on my own nickel, Koni, Bilstein, Tokico HTS, and Penske. That's all I recommend. These products are proven winners over decades of competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistafosta Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) I've offered to test Stance, Megan, KSport, etc. for customers who want me to recommend them. Just send me four shocks and pay for my time and shock dyno rental time and you'll get a 8 page report with dyno graphs. It will cost about $1,900 plus your cost of the shocks and related shipping, No one has ever stepped up. And the manufactures said, "Not interested" when contacted. With your obvious negative outlook and skepticism, I wouldn't be interested in doing that with you either in their position. You aren't exactly impartial, but I understand why. There are a lot of fly by night coilover companies out there, and its easy to lump them all in the same category. Remember, 95% of the miatas with stance coilovers you see have their base model shock/spring combo that is made to compete in that price range. The shocks I am looking at are a step or three above those. If I do use stance for my suspension, what dyno tests would you like done? They have an in house shock dyno, and said they will be testing mine to confirm the valving I request. Maybe I can have them dyno my shocks and request the results so that people can see? At this point, I'm fairly impartial, but I'm hesitant to condemn a company so quickly that after talking to in length, shows quite a bit of knowledge and ability in their product. I'll talk to Feal as well, see what they can offer me, Thank you for the suggestions! Not gonna bother looking into $5000 coilovers for a drag car though, since honestly its WAY out of the range that I need. At this point, my setup "works" but I want to fine tune a lot more out of it for a reasonable amount of money. Edited March 9, 2015 by mistafosta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1vicissitude Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Another possible solution, but probably not any better than stance would be BC. I have seen dynos of the BC ER series, the ones with external resevoir, and they were pretty decent for sub $2000. Now that BC makes a s30 application I imagine an ER offering would be too hard of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't have a negative attitude. I'm skeptical, which is a very good thing when it comes to claims by automotive aftermarket companies and a good thing if I'm spending customers money on handling improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistafosta Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't have a negative attitude. I'm skeptical, which is a very good thing when it comes to claims by automotive aftermarket companies and a good thing if I'm spending customers money on handling improvements. You changed your post. As to the original, I've been 100% respectful of the opinions and feelings here so thank you for changing it. I'm not jumping into anything, but 5-12k for front suspension on a drag/street car is probably a bit overkill for my car. I did look into every option that has been presented so far, and whatever my decision is, it will be based on whatever info I can glean. As for your attitude, I do feel like you're extremely negative towards the stance upper end stuff without actually seeing it in action. If it was just skepticism, then pretty much everyone misread you since I'm not the only one that saw it as I did obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yes, I deleted some stupid comments I was making at 5:30am. And I have seen the Stance stuff in action on a road race track and its no better or worse then out of the box Bilstiens or Tokico HTS shocks. Not as good as Koni 8610s or 8611s. With some development time I'm sure it can get up to where the 8610s and 8611s are. If you want to characterize my opinions as negative, fine. I have no dog in this fight, just trying to answer your original questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistafosta Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yes, I deleted some stupid comments I was making at 5:30am. And I have seen the Stance stuff in action on a road race track and its no better or worse then out of the box Bilstiens or Tokico HTS shocks. Not as good as Koni 8610s or 8611s. With some development time I'm sure it can get up to where the 8610s and 8611s are. If you want to characterize my opinions as negative, fine. I have no dog in this fight, just trying to answer your original questions. Ok. These were the pro comp series shocks you saw not the super sports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't know. it was a competitor's car and he was having issues with too much compression damping. The car was skatey and chattered under braking. I asked him about it and he said that's what Stance recommended for his 240SX. I suggested he dial down the compression damping and he said I should worry about my own setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistafosta Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't know. it was a competitor's car and he was having issues with too much compression damping. The car was skatey and chattered under braking. I asked him about it and he said that's what Stance recommended for his 240SX. I suggested he dial down the compression damping and he said I should worry about my own setup. Road racers are the friendliest aren't they? Sounds like the dude was a bit of an idiot, as well as sounds like he didn't spec his valving like I will with whatever shock I do go with. Is that your only experience with the stance stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 If there's one thing I have learned from this and other car forums, it's that ALL car guys have a chip on their shoulders. It may be a big chip or a little chip, but the chip is always there. It seems to be something that we barely suppress on our best behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I wouldn't even call that "experience" with a product. And no, I've not had any direct experience with Stance, BC, KSport, Megan, etc. almost all of my road racing experience has been with SCCA and NASA and up through 2010 you just didn't see these manufactures on the podium. I've made recommendations above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistafosta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 I wouldn't even call that "experience" with a product. And no, I've not had any direct experience with Stance, BC, KSport, Megan, etc. almost all of my road racing experience has been with SCCA and NASA and up through 2010 you just didn't see these manufactures on the podium. I've made recommendations above. I would like to think a lot has changed in the last 5 years. I do appreciate the input though, thanks for chiming in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistafosta Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 So for some clarification, since I talked to the Stance guys in person today. Their product wasn't on the market until 2009, so its no surprise they weren't on the podium before 2010. Seems a bit harsh to give a blanket negative to them because you see one model of their product fitting a class of vehicle you don't like, or throwing them into the "junk" category since their cheaper line (SS) is popular among drifters and street cars. They are on some record holding land speed cars, a few big name import drag vehicles as well as a ton of Japanese racing and drifting cars. The product is not made in China. Its manufactured in Japan, and then modified here in Chicago if needed (Custom stuff). They do all custom valving and shock testing in house here in Chicago as well. My needs are well within the abilities of their shocks, and they are willing to go to great lengths to make the shock work perfectly for me. The camber plates they use are from Sakura Garage and look to be extremely good quality. I'm 95% certain I will be using either their DA or TA setup on my car this year after discussing everything I need and that they can do in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1vicissitude Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) I don't mind stance for a budget coilover, it's just in the game of doubles when $5,000 is the general starting point why do you even want to consider the same brand that most slammed packing lot bros swoon over? I have to admit I have no experience with their newer stuff, but until I see 3rd party data on them I will remain to have my skepticism. Why should a private party have to front the cash to market a companies goods? If they are that good, 3rd party testing would be the best marketing tool they could buy. Flat out, I don't trust a companies offerings who's sponsored drift cars don't even run their coilovers at the pro level lol. Go to D1 in the pits and look at the cars running and you'll see penske, ohlins, etc. You know, the big budget stuff that real race teams use in most of motorsports. Also, there are a couple other companies who sell relabeled Stance coilovers in different colors, this is very common with the asian manufactured coilovers. Why even have brand loyalty to a brand when anyone with enough money can buy a container of the same product and have a start up coilover brand? There is just too much good stuff out these days, some with crazy cool bleeding edge technology like spool valves, accelometer and velocity active dampening with millisecond response time, or even magnetic adjustment. In the market when there is so much available I'd chose to not make my performance decisions to a company so heavily focused with the swag stance guys. Edited March 21, 2015 by 1vicissitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistafosta Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 I don't mind stance for a budget coilover, it's just in the game of doubles when $5,000 is the general starting point why do you even want to consider the same brand that most slammed packing lot bros swoon over? I have to admit I have no experience with their newer stuff, but until I see 3rd party data on them I will remain to have my skepticism. Why should a private party have to front the cash to market a companies goods? If they are that good, 3rd party testing would be the best marketing tool they could buy. Flat out, I don't trust a companies offerings who's sponsored drift cars don't even run their coilovers at the pro level lol. Go to D1 in the pits and look at the cars running and you'll see penske, ohlins, etc. You know, the big budget stuff that real race teams use in most of motorsports. Also, there are a couple other companies who sell relabeled Stance coilovers in different colors, this is very common with the asian manufactured coilovers. Why even have brand loyalty to a brand that anyone with enough money to buy a container of the same product could have a start up coilover brand? There is just too much good stuff out these days, some with crazy cool bleeding edge technology like spool valves, accelometer and velocity active dampening with millisecond response time, or even magnetic adjustment. In the market when there is so much available i'd chose to not make my performance decisions to a company so heavily focused with the swag stance guys. 5k is an insane amount of money for front shocks on a drag car first off. It's a double adjustable shock that needs a very tight rebound and a fairly soft dampening. Not incredibly hard really, and just silly to drop a massive amount on. I don't know about the D1 thing, since I don't care for drifting even a remote amount, so I've never looked at the cars up close. I'd be surprised at a car having a full sponsorship running a different product. I don't like to discount a company due to some of its customer base. They were named Stance long before the entire stance scene came about, and now they sadly have to live with the connection that is made. I have now talked to most of the staff at stance since it is local to me here in Chicago. (They do all the custom work here in house and have excellent customer service/support from what I've experienced so far talking to them) For my price range of "normal person not looking to spend more than the price of a decent used car on shocks" it seems my options are pretty limited. Why not go with the company that is actively willing to work with me one on one and build a complete set of custom coilovers all while working inside my price range? Especially when I've actually seen their lower end stuff, that everyone in this conversation seems to hate, last for years on a few friends cars without a single issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I don't think $2500 a shock is all that expensive for a custom made piece of high-end race equipment. You have a record breaking car so I'm not sure why you think any one part of it would be inexpensive. The only "lower" cost DA insert I know of is either Koni or the Ground Control AD shocks, which I don't think they make anymore. There may be some options if you're willing to get creative and fab up some parts. Perhaps one of the Koni drag struts for a different model (Mustang/Camaro) but it sound like Koni isn't really up to snuff for this? Perhaps you could run a coilover shock outside of the strut housing. Years ago this was done in IMSA and other orgs as long as the rules allow it. It opens all manner of possibilities. You could even use the varishocks you have on the rear of the car at the front. You did start out by telling us that you were interested in Penske shocks or something similar and that you're a serious racer. So it sounded like you already knew this wasn't going to be a cheap request. It's not hard at all to get ballpark costs from the internet. So I'm not really sure where all the price sensitivity came from. It's called racing and the joke's always been you make a small fortune from a big one doing it. What it sounds like is you're trying to convince us Stance are the best DA shock for you and get us all to agree (fat chance). There are as many opinions on this forum as there are members. You did the research and have talked to them. If that's what you want then go with them. It's that easy if you have all the data points you need. It's your car, your money. You don't need to convince us. Get some great results and help stance in the drag market. I'm sure it would help a lot of people to see that they have a quality product you set records with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Do you know how to access the adjuster knobs on the stance shocks? Difficult (not super difficult) access to the lower adjuster is what kept me from going double-adjuster on konis (I went single adjustable, and I'm happy with them). Where are the adjuster knobs/screws on the stance units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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