V8 Air Cleaners

[fl327]

im looking into fabricating an air ram system utilizing one of those air filtres some v8s had with the solid top and sides with the the air tube that comes out the side?? hope you know what im talking about, cant really describe much better. but im thinkinig about using the k and n xstream to replace the top of it, and then cutting that tube that comes out of the side to make it a little bigger, than fabricating some piping that will either exit in front of my front tires or through the front of the car by the grill, since i will still have an air filter inside the little unit on top of the carb, it wont be as likely to swallow a big drink of water when i hit a puddle and explode, ok

thats my idea

[DavyZ]

There doesn't seem to be any reason for not being able to do that--sounds like another variation of ram-air.

 

The coolest looking ram air set up that I have ever seen was on a drag racing 60's something Buick Skylark. The guys had a sano sheetmetal system that was attached to the hood! When they opened the hood, off came the ram-air setup! Since everything was sheetmetal, the airflow was exceptionally smooth and went where it was supposed to.

[SpeedRacer]

The pressure is usually greater at the base of the windshield so if you duct it from the cowl to the air cleaner you will probably get even more HP. Also, there should be no problem with water if you add a simple baffle.

[pparaska]

But there's more pressure at the grill, supposedly. Funny, Jim Biondo and I were spending some more money talking on the phone one day and he had the following ideas on getting cool air to the engine:

 

-Get a blow through carb attachment that bolts down to the top of the carb air horn.

 

-Take a 4" (or smaller for my wimpy little 327 as he likes to joke ) diameter piece of that nice racing brake cooling hose, and run it from the carb air horn adapter, through a hole next to the radiator.

 

-Take a big K&N cone filter and put it our in front behind the grill and attach to the hose.

 

I might do this, if I can find a place for the hole.

 

[ April 24, 2001: Message edited by: pparaska ]

[Guest Anonymous]

Exactly what I wanted to do. Theres a pretty good sized hole up there (radiator support) already isn't there as I recall? I'll have to look for a blow throw carb top, thats the part I was thinking of as well, was thinking I may have to make it, but if its cheap over the counter, then... Thanks.

 

Lone

 

Ps: Yeah alot of the 60's, early 70's muscle cars had great ram air systems, I liked the one that came on one of the Fords, the scoop was the air filter top and poked through a hole in the hood.

[Kevin Shasteen]

I loved the 60's/70's RAM Air systems. I liked Dodge/Plymoth's ram air "Grabbers" withe the little Bee looking at you when the grabber was opened! I also liked the Olds W-45 hood...especially since my Olds has that factory hood on it. Wasnt it also the AMC Rebel that had a red arrow painted on the hood in a helpfully instructive manner-telling the air how to enter the ram-air scoop (talk about 60/70's attitude). I liked the Fords hood scopps also & dont understand why Ford doesnt make their Cobra scoops functional(?). You'ld think they'ld get tired of being beat by the Firehawks & Vettes.

 

For anyone thinking about what size box they need around their carb...The Ram Air Box company uses these formulas for figuring "Height & Filtering Area" requirements.

 

A = Effective Filtering Area

 

A = Displacement x RPM/25,000

 

Total Height Needed =

 

D = estimated Diameter that fits unobstructed in the vehicle

 

H = Required Height of the filter

 

H = (A/D+3.14) + .75

 

Hope this helps.

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

[Guest Anonymous]

I was looking at the air cleaner setups on the turbo cars (in the turbo forum) and was wondering to my self why not do this on a carb'ed V8? Is there any reason a airbox could not be fashioned, piped out in front of the radiator support and have a big honking K and N filter like the Turbo and F.I. cars do? I'm just thinking in terms of cold air, and hood clearance for maybe wanting to do this. Any thoughts?

 

Lone

[blueovalz]

I made a ram air set-up for my 240SX. First pieces I made did not work real well, but after a few lips here and there on the intake scoop, and going larger on the duct tube, the result was pleasing. The passing power on the highway in 5th gear is now as good as it was in 4th gear before set-up was made. For pics and ideas look at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1541023

and look at the "240SX Ram Air" album.

[Owen]

Funny, this is one of the first things I did! (I needed to pratice welding one something...). Must be my ricer roots too.

 

While I don't have a carb setup, any box around the intake with an inlet hole will do. I used 3-inch muffler piping and welded it into an s-shaped piece that goes from the throttle body through the round hole by the radiator (this determined my tubing size) and capped the end with a K&N.

 

It's right next to the headlight so I don't have to worry about water or anything getting on it. A little maybe, but I'll just call it a form of water injection

 

Check out Mike Kelly's setup too.

 

Owen

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kevin Shasteen:

H = (A/D+3.14) + .75

 

Kevin

---

 

Kevin, are you sure on these formulae? I checked their site and only found the 14" diam. chart. I assumed various units and didn't get their 3" height/350/6000rpm (came close to 2.5" with 350 input as 5.7). The portion quoted above is likely in error as if it was ++ it may as well be just +3.89. Interesting approach but something should be said for volumetric efficiency in such a calculation as well if hipo setups are involved and we're not all just assuming 75-85% or so.

 

On the other ideers/great stuff . A local car has an 'airbox' and underhood 'tunnel' under his raised portion only with two 'eyes' at the base of the raised portion on leading edge of hood for inlets...all stainless including two large elbows routed to his firewall/cowl fresh air intake area. Major money in the stainless fabrication and he had to seal off this area from being it's usual cabin/fresh air source.

 

I've toyed in my head with the ideas listed, for an L6 car the front airbox or drivers side fwd of the wheelwell going thru inner fender idea is v. slick IMO and OEM's have used these v. successfully in the past.

 

For V8's I've thought of tunneling in top of my hood and routing it OVER my radiator to open into an extractor type shape (like a floor model vaccuum) off the leading edge of my hood with air cleaner up front in the large extractor (like some 3rd gen fbods location). The hood crossbeam on my ZX would need to be altered for clearance but I'd love this as you lift the hood and it's out of the way/a huge plus for me as I routinely tinker and like things v. easy to access/service/check out. It would seal to a cookie tin like base made to fit my EFI/air door lip (same as any carb).

 

-oh yeah, the blow thru/B&M type tops are quite pricey when I did look at them...as I wanted to use one with dual inlets and possible take them to front either side of rad as I have large holes their already from prior mods or thru the inner fenders to large airboxes or simply K&N cones with the end inverts in front of my wheels tucked as fwd as is reasonable and water shouldn't be a concern with a simple splashguard etc.

 

-alternately (yes another alternate) I'd have my raised hood portion tapered up so by the time it finishes at the base of the cowl it would be raised 3/4"-1" across it's full width for a cowl type subtle hood/not as high as others I've seen.....the C5 breathes thru a rather 'narrow' plastic piece they use that passes over their radiator/hood junction of similar size, 7"x2" or similar/I have those measurements somewhere. This would seal as well upon closing to a box of some sort.

 

Ideally I'd like the first/completely tied to hood/lifts clear when hood opens if time/labour was free. (I have a spare OEM/new hood )

[BLKMGK]

Guys, look at the ram-air setup on Mikelly's car. He used one of those ram-air setups advertised on the back of various mags andpposted here awhile back as to which pieces worked best. This is my intent - nice big fiberglass air cleaner with hoses run up front through the radiator area or perhaps down low. The issue I'd see with the blow through setup is that those little air horns are small (IMO). They don't leave much room for the air to turn before entering the carb and would hamper airflow on a N/A setup I believe. Best to have nice wide radius I think.

 

Lastly, I thought base of windshield was a LOW pressure area? It works because a low pressure area allows the engine to inhale easily and hot air escapes back there for the same reason. Up front is a high pressure area - force fed like a beer bong (lol). With the weirdo' aero on a Z it might be worth checking up fron to be sure though. Maybe put some small paper strips at the base of the windshield to test that area too?

[Guest Anonymous]

Yeah, I've seen the Ramair box, it looks great, works well and is a little more than I want to spend. I think I have my plan worked out from a materials aspect. If it works out and isn't a abomination I'll post the results. If it is, I'll deny I ever tried it.

 

Lone

[Kevin Shasteen]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ross C:

[QB]Kevin, are you sure on these formulae? I checked their site and only found the 14" diam. chart. I assumed various units and didn't get their 3" height/350/6000rpm (came close to 2.5" with 350 input as 5.7). The portion quoted above is likely in error as if it was ++ it may as well be just +3.89.

]

---

 

Ross,

 

I'm not sure how you worked the formula; but I came up w/5.65" tall of a filter requred for your 350 @ 6000rpms. I didnt get the formula from their site. I found it in a book tilted "1000 Performance Tips" in the auto section at Barnes & Nobles-they quoted the formula & gave credit to Ram Air Box company as their source.

 

Your 350 @ 6000rpms should look like this when working the formula:

 

Displacement x RPM/25,5000

350 x 6000/25,000 =

2,100,000/25,000 = 84

 

Now to the next formula:

H = Height of filter

A = Minimum Effective Filtering Area Required

D = Required Diameter of filter

 

H = (A/(D+3.14)) + .75

 

(84/14"+3.14) + .75 =

 

84/17.14 + .75 =

 

4.9 + .75 = 5.65" tall filter required to run your 350 @ 6000rpms w/a 14" diameter filter. If you wish to estimate height w/a different diameter filter-simply swap 14" for your desired diameter filter & work the formula as the example above.

 

Sorry if I made it confusing in my first post.

 

BTW: I saw a pretty interesting box for a carb in another book of mine-it was about Ford small blocks & was discussing the use of Blowers. The box was metal & made by Vortech; it housed a Holley-the box would also insulate the carb from some engine heat/dont know how well it work w/the engine being Normally Aspirated-but the lid had the snout that obviously could have hosing routed to it & the lid looked as if the lid snout could be sealed w/the snout facing the passenger side or the drivers side(?). And then a K&N pipe & filter kit to match it!

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

 

[ April 25, 2001: Message edited by: Kevin Shasteen ]

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kevin Shasteen:

Ross,

 

I'm not sure how you worked the formula; but I came up w/5.65" tall of a filter requred for your 350 @ 6000rpms. Kevin Shasteen ]

---

 

OK, now that it works I just can't believe thats my true required height

 

I'm down to the garage now to make my custom housing for the 5'(60") diameter filter I'll need for my 2" height I'm restricted to gonna take a lot of cotton batton

 

I knew I'd end up buying a welder and torch some day;^)

 

Just joshing you Kevin, but the numbers must be for 200% efficiency on the intake side or something as removing my air cleaner doesn't yield any phenomenal gains so 2" can't be that bad..

 

PS thanks for the extra pair of brackets(D+3.14)/us eng's hang onto those quite dearly.

[Mikelly]

Guys,

Hotrod Magazine did a tech article a while back on making a RamAir kit with an existing triangular Edelbrock air box, some simple stuff from the local Lowes Applience department (i.e. Drier ducting and bends) and it looked as good as that unit I bought.

As for the holes in the radiator core support, remember, those are for your fresh air ducting into the car... as Donna and I found out last year... Unless you have A/C (And we don't), plan to sweat a Lot in the summer time.

I'm planning to run a big Dual NACA Duct ALA new Vipers right at the rise on the new fiberglass hood. I'm planning on getting the twin hose unit and glassing it in, and then running short ducting to my box. BTW, I had to give up an inch on the filter, as I don't have enough room under hood for a 4 inch element. Did it hurt my performance? Maybe, but it helped in the sense that my motor isn't huffing in all that hot Under hood air.

I guess the other choice would be to glass in a shelf for one of those cone filters to sit in at the snorkle and run a single 4 inch tube to the air horn Pete Mentioned...

 

Ideas Ideas...

 

Mike

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

Mike and others, are you familiar with this 'triangular' edelbrock box? or did they use the baseplate from that small edelbrock triangular/foam top/metal mesh filter setup? I've honestly been thinking of using a cookie tin of appropriate size and fitting it up etc but that'll already fit would be fin/I just don't want a 14" airbox preferably.

 

As for the rad. core support holes...I thought fresh air comes in at the base of your cowl in that large grill/vent (ala where wiper bases are), or via inner fender? On my ZX the front rad. support main hole was for the airbox to TB hose.

[pparaska]

Ross, on the Z, that area (cowl) is for pass compartment fresh air intak only - although I've had thoughts of cutting a hole to provide engine intake air. I'm now leaning toward a ram air box, but $100+ for a piece of plastic and some metal stampings really doesn't sit well. Plus I don't want to have to mod my strut tower bar mounts for it.

[SpeedRacer]

Remember when almost all the race cars (except maybe dragsters, GTP, etc. with big air scoops) ducted air to the carb from one or more of the front headlight openings. NASCAR, IMSA, Bush, SCCA et. al. but now almost all of them duct to the air cleaner from the cowl - so why is that?

[SpeedRacer]

Remember when almost all the race cars (except maybe dragsters, GTP, etc. with big air scoops) ducted air to the carb from one or more of the front headlight openings. NASCAR, IMSA, Bush, SCCA et. al. but now almost all of them duct to the air cleaner from the cowl - so why is that?

[Guest Anonymous]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but theres the black vents that have have the plastic hose on both sides which I think are the fresh air for the cowl, and then inboard of that on my 72's radiator support are two holes that are 2.5" currently (one on each side of the radiator). My current plan is to increase the one on the drivers side to 3", run the pipe through the radiator support and have the K and N cone filter hanging on that pointing forward (should just clear the hood hinges and everything up there). The air box that I have bent up is like 2" h and 8Wx10L. The front will have a 3" pipe that has been either ovaled or I may flare out to a wider sheetmetal piece thats more rectangular and then weld it to the front of the box with a slight downward angle (to clear my homemade pipe strut bar). The top I think I've narrowed down to a piece of silicon tubing siliconed down around the top of the metal edge (to form a seal, all welds will be siliconed on the inside as well just for the sake of no leaks) and then a piece of 1/8" aluminum plate on top just to shine up and make pretty. The stock (well bowtie cutesie wingnut in my case) wingnut will hold the whole thing down.

I know the volume of the box and hose might be small for some's applications, but in my stock 350 and even modded a bit, I think it will be fine. (Most of the modern FI cars have aftermarket filter pipes and filters like this, so I think it'll be fine) As I said, if it looks ok and works ok, I'll let you know.

 

Lone