5.0 T5 shifter location

[bushido431]

I just bought my father's 280z back after 15 years. When my father did the engine conversion in 87 he made a custom center console because the shifter was too far forward, I want to put a factory console back in. Does anyone know of a way to get shifter close to srock location. Possibly swapping tailshaft with 3rd Gen Camaro or 280zx Turbo? I'm considering fabricating a remote shifter. If anyone else has solved this issue please post up.

[yellowoctupus]

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/97812-460zgt-project-build/?p=978422

 

With a stock center console, if you forego the switches (in my 78, there's a Haz, Def switch in the way) it will buy you a bit more space in the 'up' direction.  Working with those two switches probably cuts 1.5" out of your clearance, I bet.

 

Second thing, I just remembered, the 94+ V6 T5 (same 300ft-lb torque rating as the V8 T5) has a bellhousing/input shaft that is 3/4" deeper, which might help you.  Granted, you'd need at least 3/4" of extra slip yoke on your current driveshaft to safely swap them, but if you do, that's a lot of easy space.  I have a 94 V6 T5 behind my 351w in my wife's 65 Mustang, and it fit perfectly in that, while lots of guys with pre 94 trans have to trim the shifter hole to get clearance. If you don't have the driveshaft length, you might be able to get a set of universals that are offset, two of them should buy your 3/4" back I'd think.

 

Oh, and there's a Facebook group, "V8 s30 Owners"; on Sept 29th, one of the guys posted up these two pictures:

 

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by yellowoctupus

[tim.d]

Or you could find a center console from a 72-73 - their shifter locations are further forwards.

[74_5.0L_Z]

My car has the shifter very close to the stock location, but that required moving the engine back almost against the firewall.  The back of the driver's side cylinder head is 3/4" from the firewall.

 

To put the engine in this position required deleting the factor hood latch, and fabricating my own mounts.  I believe the Laine Family installation has the engine in a position similar to mine and that they managed to keep the hood latch.

[yellowoctupus]

 

Or you could find a center console from a 72-73 - their shifter locations are further forwards.

 

Do the earlier consoles line up with the later dash / radio / hvac area properly?

[Jbusch]

I'd suggest moving the motor back. I'm running a 302/TKO600 and my shifter is in the center.

[bushido431]

Engine is back as far as I can get it and still have A/C. I modified the console so it could be mounted forward 1 inch and fabricated a shift handle with further rearward offset.

[datsunfreak]

On 10/21/2016 at 1:08 AM, yellowoctupus said:

I just remembered, the 94+ V6 T5 (same 300ft-lb torque rating as the V8 T5) has a bellhousing/input shaft that is 3/4" deeper, which might help you.  Granted, you'd need at least 3/4" of extra slip yoke on your current driveshaft to safely swap them, but if you do, that's a lot of easy space.  I have a 94 V6 T5 behind my 351w in my wife's 65 Mustang, and it fit perfectly in that, while lots of guys with pre 94 trans have to trim the shifter hole to get clearance.

 

So for sure the same bolt pattern as the V8? 

[yellowoctupus]

Yessir. Same pattern for all of these: (stolen from Wikipedia-Ford Bellhousing Patterns )

• 200 I6 1978-1983 only, partial (4 of 6 bolts) pattern.
• 250 I6
• 255 V8
• 289 V8 - (made after August 3, 1964) - had 6 bolts holding bellhousing to block
• 302 Cleveland (Australia)
• 351 Cleveland V8 (not the 351 Cleveland M-block engine)
• 351 Boss
• 351 Cobra Jet
• 302 Windsor V8
• 351 Windsor V8
• 400 Cleveland M-block V8 aka 400FMX (certain 1973 casting numbers D1AE and D3AE, mated to the FMX transmission)
• 3.8/3.9/4.2L Canadian Essex 90° V6 (RWD only)
• 240 I6
• 300 I6
• 4.6L Modular V8 (first two casting runs, numbers F1AE and F2VE)
• 5.0L Windsor V8
• 5.8L Windsor V8

 

[datsunfreak]

Awesome! Thank you for the information. 

[datsunfreak]

Has anyone used one of the newer V6 5 speeds? Or know if the late 90s T45 or early 2000s TR-3650 will bolt up? 

Also curious about the 2011+ Getrag MT82 since it's remote shifter might be the fix for all the "shifter too far forward" woes. 

[datsunfreak]

On 11/5/2017 at 2:51 PM, yellowoctupus said:

Yessir. Same pattern for all of these: (stolen from Wikipedia-Ford Bellhousing Patterns )

 

• 4.6L Modular V8 (first two casting runs, numbers F1AE and F2VE)

 

Or better yet, if someone knows a production date on this.  

[yellowoctupus]

No go on a T45.  Completely different bolt pattern.  That's what I'm running behind my Mod motor.  

Why do you want the production dates on 91/92 Crown Vics?  They only ran an automatic behind them, and are rated almost the same hp/tq as a 5.0HO.

[datsunfreak]

On 11/19/2017 at 10:59 AM, yellowoctupus said:

No go on a T45.  Completely different bolt pattern.  That's what I'm running behind my Mod motor.  

Why do you want the production dates on 91/92 Crown Vics?  They only ran an automatic behind them, and are rated almost the same hp/tq as a 5.0HO.

Are you saying those early mod motors only came in a Crown Vic?

And thanks for the info. I'm just looking for something newer that will fit. 

[yellowoctupus]

Yes, 91/92 were Crown Vic only 4.6 engines. Mark VII were 5.0, Mustangs were 5.0,  ETC, but the 91/92 Mod engines still used the old SBF bolt pattern to use the existing AOD bellhousing.

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[datsunfreak]

So basically that information is useless and I need a 5.0 or V6 transmission. 

[74_5.0L_Z]

You need the V8 version period.  At a minimum, you should get the T5Z transmission.  You can buy them new or get a good one from Astro Performance.

For the Z car, gear ratio selection is paramount to making a fun driving car.

 

When I first built my car(circa 2001), I used a stock T5 from a Mustang police car and it had the following gear ratios:

1st: 3.35 to 1

2nd: 1.99 to 1

3rd: 1.33 to 1

4th: 1 to 1

5th: 0.67 to 1

 

It held up decently behind a stock 5.0L, but I hated 1st gear.  At the time I had a 3.54 rear gear and ran 24.7 tall tires, but 1st was uselessly short.  In street driving, I just generally started off in second gear.  Later when I upgraded to a 331 stroker making 400 hp / 400 tq at the wheels, the stock T5 died a very quick death (during an autocross I sheared all of the teeth off second gear coming off a corner).  When I pulled the transmission I discovered that I had also twisted the input shaft and output shaft as well as the stock slip yoke.

 

So, I upgraded to Gforce gears and shafts.  At the time I was only autocrossing, so I opted for the stock fifth gear.  The new gear ratios were as follows:

1st: 2.94 to 1

2nd: 1.94 to 1

3rd: 1.33 to 1

4th: 1 to 1

5th: 0.59 to 1

 

I really liked the new 1st gear, especially with the new 3.36 rear end that I installed at about the same time.  Unfortunately, when I started doing track days instead of autocross, I really hated 5th gear.  The 4 to 5 shift dropped the rpms way too much and totally killed acceleration.  So I pulled the transmission and installed the S80 fifth gear set from Modern Driveline (0.80 to 1).  I now really love fifth gear.  It pulls like a freight train all the way to redline in fifth now, but it might not be a good choice for a street car.

 

My recommendation is this:  If you plan to build any significant power then pony up for an Astro Performance A5 with the following gear ratios:

1st: 2.94 to 1

2nd: 1.94 to 1

3rd: 1.33 to 1

4th: 1 to 1

5th: 0.80 to 1

 

Be aware that the GForce and AstroPerformance T5s use a 26 spline input shaft and will require a different clutch disk.  The stock input shaft is a 10 spline.

[yellowoctupus]

Quote

You need the V8 version period.

 

This is one of those hotly debated topics in Ford circles.  Supposedly, the V6 T5's are built to the same 300ft/lbs rating as the later 5.0 T5s.  I even read a post a few years ago (maybe over in the vintage mustang forums?) that a guy got ahold of a design engineer for Ford or BW/Tremec who confirmed the V6=5.0 internally.  Regardless of internet armchair debates, T5 integrity has a lot of variables (especially when considering the type of argument for or against that starts out, "I have xxhp behind my xxT5, and the car weighs xxxlbs and I drive it like a grandma/madman and it lasted forever/died prematurely").  That said, I have a stock '94 V6 T5 behind a 351w and it's still one of the smoothest shifting transmissions I've had in a car, but it's not like I'm on 15" drag tires with a 500hp 351w side stepping the clutch at every stoplight. 

 

Good gear ratio and aftermarket advice though, for sure.  I wholeheartedly agree on 1st being useless in my Mustang, unless I'm starting on some wicked steep hill or pulling stumps or something.

 

[74_5.0L_Z]

Here is a good link that covers the gear ratios and rated torque capacity of the mustang T5.

 

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/349.shtml

 

You will notice that all the T5s for the 3.8 V6 were rated at 265 lb-ft of torque while the V8 World Class T5s were rated at 300 to 330 lb-ft.  If you go with the GForce or Astro Performance gears and shafts then you can get 500+ lb-ft of torque capacity.  Also the V6 T5s have the crappy 3.35 to 1 1st gear.

[yellowoctupus]

Good link.  It's one of the few links that still worked when I checked my old transmission bookmark folder!  Looking back at it now in more detail however, I wonder where they got their information from.  The chart shows all of the 3.8's as having a 265 rating, yet the text above the chart states: "Today's V-6 Mustangs sports the last of the T-5s. The T-5 behind the 3.8L is a 3.35 first gear set with a .68 over drive. What makes these different from the rest is the electronic speedometer trigger. No longer is there a mechanical driven cable system. It has the longer input shaft equipped with a steel front bearing retainer and reverse synchro brake assembly. Torque rating is 300ft/lbs."  It's poorly cited/proofed articles like this that get people all wound up.  

 

And then, not to muddy these waters further, but the 2005-2010 4.0 used a T5 as well, but I don't know specifics of that one.  From Modern Drivelines : Torque rating after the 2.95:1 gear set is installed is 350ft/lbs or about 450hp.

 

500ftlb is nothing to laugh at though from GForce, that's sick.  I don't plan on ever hitting that in my Mustang (with the T5) but I'll keep those options in mind if I do.