SR20 or RB

[Guest Anonymous]

I am in need of semi economical 500+ hp : ) I am searching options on the L28 but i am open for suggestion on RB or SR what all is needed in these swaps ? tranny ? what else ? is it expensive ? I know there is always the V8 but i like to keep my Nissans with Nissan engines (no offense) Thanx in advance !

[Guest 250z]

Good RB conversion info from STONY

 

http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000125

 

Cuong Nguyen (user RB26DETT) is making all the conversion parts he used in his RB26DETT conversion if you want to get prices and etc

[Guest Anonymous]

Well the 500hp is an aproximation. The thing is I have a 1972 240Z I am wanting to put into the low 11's high 10's on turbo alone. I know i can achieve this thru the L28 but im open for suggestions. I said semi economical, I realize that certain things must be paid for. But im not wanting to build a $5000 dollar motor. Anyway what kind of HP can be produced by a SR20 and RB and what all is involved ?

[Bob_H]

You can count on your one hand the number of folks who didn't go big V8's that are running low 11's high 10's in a Z.

And you are seriously kidding yourself about not spending $5k on the engine. It just won't happen.

And you still haven't told us how much you have set aside for this project. Until you do, you are just pissing in the wind. I could give you a "formula" for success,(worth what you paid), but there is no guarantee it will work. First, you tell me what is the single biggest detriment to Z's getting into the low 11's, high 10's? If you can't answer that, I question why you want to do this?

And next, I'll ask you the same thing I asked ON3GO, have you ever driven a 12 second car? What is the fastest car YOU have driven? Not ridden in, and G-Tech numbers don't count.

I realize I am being harsh, but you are providing scant details on why you want this, and exactly how much you plan on spending. The exact budget is crucial for the kinda power you want. If you were shooting for 300's at the wheels, that is a whole different ballgame.

500hp from just about any motor available will cost you at least $5k. I challenge you to show me a cheaper route, you'll find it is tough to break over 400-450 hp.

Remember, everyone want's to go low 11's. The reality is most have no idea what it is like to drive a car that can out accelerate a McLaren F1. They are just shooting for that because it sounds cool. I am trying to challenge you to provide me with any reasons to think you aren't just planning on this because it sounds cool. How fast is your Z currently? Do you go to the track on a regular basis? Have you ever been to the track? Is this going to be a street racer? (Hint, I won't offer you squat if it is). Road racer? Daily driver? All those are huge factors in how you get to the end result. And 500hp will cost at least $5k total in the three motors you are asking about,(SR, RB and L6). Period.

-Bob

[Guest Zachb55]

hmm, thats a real eye opener... well of course i plan on spending much more money and doing my swap over a long time, i figure the best way to do it is get all the info your going to need, then get your funds, then your engine and all that good stuff, you can get tons of hp from an RB engine, depending on where you live, you might want to consider a JZ engine, because in the US that might get you to your goal for possibly less money and likely more reliability...

 

-Zach

[auxilary]

Bob is right. you have to draw a line somewhere between daily use and street drivability and project racer. You will NOT have a *stable* 10 second car that's "semi-economic" and daily driven. $5000 isn't going to get you into those numbers either. the words semi economical and 500+hp don't really go together, especially for an sr20det. true, the motor can handle a lot of power, but over 350, things will start breaking - you can't just turn up the boost. and building a 2 liter 4 banger to handle that much power will cost you 5k alone, if not more. don't forget that you'll also have to replace the stock turbo with something much bigger. (and turbochargers aren't cheap)

 

Honestly, if you want economy, daily drivability, and to get into 10s for 5k, best route is a used yamaha r6.

[Guest Anonymous]

I built own and race a 12.5sec Z31. I purchased this 72' 240 becuase it was lighter, will completley outhadnle the 300 and mostly due to the smog exemption( i live in CA ). I am competing with numerous muscle cars in my area and so far the best they can come up with is 11.06. I realize my questions are a little vauge but a rookie i am not. I know i can get to low 11's on a L28 I am just trying to make sure i make the correct decision on which engine to use. It will have to be Nissan no matter what. Which is why i am asking. If this kind of power can be reached easier in another nissan engine then i am game. The actual ammount of budget can not be given becuase i plan to build this engine over time piece by piece if need be, so basically time is the only factor. I mean if you think i am some kid that just rewound F&F for the first time you are mistaken , and if you dont feel you want to share your wisdom with me then thats ok, I will figure it out ! By the way i realize semi economical can be misinterpreted, i mean i am not going to buy titanium valves and other godly pieces like that. Upgraded turbo's are cost incurred by all who strive to be fast, forged pistons etc. are a given. But custom forged cranks and **** are beyond me : ) peace !

[Bob_H]

Uh, as it is said in nearly every other thread, we need much much more info. Next, come back telling us what you searched in the archives for.

First, and most importantly, what do you want 500 hp for and how did you arrive at 500hp? Second, and almost as equally important, what is your budget for said motor?

And I will be the first of a long line of people to tell you that their is no such thing as an economical 500hp. Maybe an economical 300hp....

-Bob

[gfc]

as far as block strength goes, the rb is obviously stronger.

 

besides..the rb20 sounds a heck of a lot better than the sr20.

 

Both engines love to rev especially the rb20.

 

go the rb!

[Guest Anonymous]

Both engines are great. I'll echo the statements other's have made: it depends on what you want to do with your Z.

 

An SR20 won't make as much power as an RB26DETT but is probably better for autocross as the motor is light, has a shorter deck and can be placed further in the engine bay than said RB. If handling isn't your main priority and making bigger power easier are you goals, then the RB is a better choice.

 

I don't know of any SR-eqipped Z's but a few here, mainly STONY and RB26DETT have done and documented (very nicely and thoroughly I might add) the RB swap.

 

Personally, I think an RB is better just because it's been done before and both Stony and Cuoung are really helpful guys. Also, in the end, it's cheaper to make 500hp with an RB. You'd be really pushing the SR at 450hp and if you're aiming for 500, you'd probably be looking at a 2.2L stroker kit, new internals, rod and pistons, upgraded cams, bigger and hard-to-get turbo upgrade and a totally revamped fuel-system to meet the demands. As for as I know, 500hp is peanuts for a stock bottom-end RB26DETT.

 

Adding the hidden costs of fuel-management items ie ECU, high-flow pump, regulator, big injectors and it becomes a very expensive proposition indeed.

[David K]

Originally posted by RacerX:

What a deal!

[Bob_H]

Let me break this down. We have now established that you know what a 12 second car is like, and why you want a low 11 sec car. The two I can point to are Scottie,(granted a Buick V6), and James,(240z turbo).

But you said:

By the way i realize semi economical can be misinterpreted, i mean i am not going to buy titanium valves and other godly pieces like that.

and

But im not wanting to build a $5000 dollar motor.

and

Well the 500hp is an aproximation. The thing is I have a 1972 240Z I am wanting to put into the low 11's high 10's on turbo alone.

I'm going to tell you flat out. You can't do it for less than $5k. $10k is a much more realistic figure, not matter which engine. The only way to get close to that budget is to start with your current L6. But getting that kinda power from the L6 is tough and I know of three who have done it. The first would be Electromotives effort in GTU racing in the early 80's. The second would be James and his twin turbo wonder. The third would be JeffP. Both James and Jeff have strokers...

And I personally know another turbo with a size block that was pushing 410hp at the wheels.

As far as which motor will most easily support that kinda power? No contest, the RB26dett. But the absolute minimum you can get into one of those with a RB25 RWD tranny is about $5-6k. You can get up to about 450 hp on the stock turbo's and bigger injectors, then you need to upgrade the turbo's.

But also to run low 11's on a 240Z you have to seriously consider all the parts that break well before 400 hp when launching properly. A CV setup in the rear will be almost mandatory, as well as upgraded axles. With James' first itteration,(before the TT), he ran 12's at over 120. And he was braking things.

We'll share, but your goals are basicly impossible given what you said above. Your budget is the single biggest show stopper. You can get into the 12's cheaply. But sub 12's costs more than your budget, esp. when dealing with the non-crossflow head of the L6.

-Bob

[stony]

getting into the 12s is relatively easy on a tight budget. 11s is more expensive and you start breaking things.....10s??? there is no way to get a 10 sec car for under 5000 unless you have alot of friends that have good connections.

 

the easiest (but not the cheapest) way to go fast is to find yourself a motor that is allready hopped up and swap it out. im running a stock rb26 with bigger injectors and 15psi of booste. the thing thats holding me back from a 10 sec slip is the halfshafts. I have well over 5K in mine and i havent really even started modifying. im working on a 300z axle and stub shaft swap. if it holds im guessing a hi 10 sec slip should be cake.

[Scottie-GNZ]

Are we building a car or an engine to go hi-10s for $5K? If we are talking drivetrain, that's not difficult with the Buick 3.8L turbo simply because you only have to focus on bolt-ons.

 

The reason I am posting though is how I notice Bob's advice going unheeded, and not a single mention of the budget needed for the chassis, brakes and suspension upgrades needed to drive a 10-sec Z car on the street. Think a 12-sec Z car is fast? Try one that can do 0-60 in 2.34 and 0-100 in 6.15. Sounds cool? NO! Its downright scary and if you do not respect it, YOU WILL KILL YOURSELF!!!. I don't care how many fast cars you have driven, you are having a death-wish if you build a 450-500hp Z car w/o dumping BIG $$$ or have an innovative way to strengthen the frame and upgrade the brakes and suspension. I cringe every time I see Darius' videos because everyone thinks what he does is cool. To reiterate, he has a death-wish. I try everything in my power to avoid any kind of wheelspin to the point of using 275 DRs as my street tires. RESPECT!

 

IMO, the "cheapest" route to a 10-sec streetable car (one that can be driven anywhere, anytime, semi-economically ..)is with forced induction and the Buick 3.8 turbo and the RB2x are top of the list. You can count documented streetable 10-sec L-powered Z cars on one hand (finger? ..) with 240Z Turbo the closest and you are talking big $$$.

 

For the Young 'uns dreaming of a monster Z car, heed the warning and advice of those who have been there, done that.

[Guest ON3GO]

Well i just posted whats need for a 500hp SR20DET motor setup.

i have the cash to do this swap but know sense BOB H made some good points ill also look into a RB26 motor.

i really want something that i can drive everyday and easly hit low 12s to 11's.

 

I found some great deals on SR20 and RB parts so im game..

 

mike

[Guest LAYTON]

man i found some pretty goood looking deal at www.venus-auto.com on rb 20det and rb25det's there motor sets motor trans ecu and harness with sensors rb20det 700$ +shippng and rb25det 1500+shippng is some buys i think but there are danm pround of sr 20dets though all thats missing on there motor sets is the ic

[Guest MegaShaft_2000]

Originally posted by Bob H:

500hp from just about any motor available will cost you at least $5k. I challenge you to show me a cheaper route, you'll find it is tough to break over 400-450 hp. -Bob

A VG30DET (single turbo) will produce 500 hp for less than $5k.

 

An engine from Japan will cost about $1k, add injectors ($900) and a large turbo ($1500-$2k) and you'll be pushing more than 500 at the rear wheels quite easily.

 

Of course this doesn't cover the cost of putting it in the car.

[TimZ]

Originally posted by Scottie-GNZ:

I cringe every time I see Darius' videos because everyone thinks what he does is cool. To reiterate, he has a death-wish. I try everything in my power to avoid any kind of wheelspin to the point of using 275 DRs as my street tires. RESPECT!

Thank you Scottie. I thought I was the only one that felt that way. IMHO, not only is that amount of wheelspin not cool, but demonstrating it at speed on a non-divided public highway with oncoming traffic is downright stupid.

 

Originally posted by MegaShaft_2000:

A VG30DET (single turbo) will produce 500 hp for less than $5k.

 

An engine from Japan will cost about $1k, add injectors ($900) and a large turbo ($1500-$2k) and you'll be pushing more than 500 at the rear wheels quite easily.

So the stock computer will just figure out that it has bigger injectors and 500hp worth of airflow? Really?

 

Show me documented and independently verified proof (dyno plot, 1/4mi times, whatever) of somebody actually achieving this for under $5k, and then we can talk. Until I see that, I'm going to remain really skeptical on this one.

[stony]

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by MegaShaft_2000:

A VG30DET (single turbo) will produce 500 hp for less than $5k.

 

An engine from Japan will cost about $1k, add injectors ($900) and a large turbo ($1500-$2k) and you'll be pushing more than 500 at the rear wheels quite easily.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So the stock computer will just figure out that it has bigger injectors and 500hp worth of airflow? Really?

 

Show me documented and independently verified proof (dyno plot, 1/4mi times, whatever) of somebody actually achieving this for under $5k, and then we can talk. Until I see that, I'm going to remain really skeptical on this one.

me too for sure. a single turbo kit to make that kinda power for that price is gonna cost alot more then 1500-2000, maybe just the turbo but add all teh other goodies like manifold downpipe ect ect get me point laddy

[Guest macks]

All other issues aside, economical power means minimal bolt ons, and certainly no internal mods. Shooting for 450ish hp on stock internals wipes out SR20, RB20, and is really approaching the limits of an RB25 fitted with a decompression plate. I've no firm idea, but judging by how you guys talk about these engines, I'd think the price of the RB26 and 2JZ wipe them off the list. This leaves the 1JZ, and possibly VGx series engines. The JZ-series have proven their strength, but the 1JZ is often overlooked despite being nearly as tough as its big brother. If you can source a 1JZ halfcut w/ 5speed (good luck) from a later mkiii supra or soarer and can fab manifolds and mounts, you *might* be able to fit a large single and trick the computer into keeping things fuelled appropriately with interceptors and stay under budget. This is assuming you know what you're doing, and are doing it all yourself.

 

It's far cheaper to aim a little lower...