John Scott Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Just got off the phone with SS tech concerning the full length 1 3/4 header. Seemed very helpful and willing to improve the design and fit. If your car is like mine with about 3" or so ground to oil pan clearance, then the SS headers will be nearly resting on the ground on the passenger side. Possible options are, as mentioned before, going to a 2 1/2 collector. This is better for flow anyway unless you are running dual 3". Turning collecters inward,and raising the passenger side to clear new small diamerter starters. Very interested in the possibility of building a tri-Y design, based on the existing #5205(?) Anyone confirm using that #?. Said it would move the passenger side up about 2". Very good torque band. Ideally we need a test mule he could ship to, try the modifications for fit, make adjustments, then build a jig for production. An order of 20 headers would make it worthwhile. I'm doubting we can generate that kind of interest, and since I don't yet have an engine sitting in my car am strarting to feel the whole header deal is nothing but a mojor pain in the @$$! Sounds like many of us are dealing with a compromise in performance, running a short tube 1 5/8 where a long tube 1 3/4 should go. Spent a lot of dough to get good flowing heads only to stop them up at the other. Makes me sick, but at this point I might just throw in the towel and do the same thing. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tht1KSguy Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Hey John, by the time you get your engine back you could have lots of practice in welding up your own set of headers I get the feeling I'll be doing the same thing since 1-7/8 block huggers aren't exactly power producers for my 451 mopar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Hey John, I'm interested in beening one of the 20 orders. Yes a "test-mule" would be needed to get it right! I'm sure there are other here that want the same thing! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted March 25, 2002 Author Share Posted March 25, 2002 www.headersbyed.com/index.html here's a guy who has another opinion about compromises. In fact he's full of opinions, but maybe right in his approach. Into building the perfect set yourself? JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deMideon Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Wow that guy does have a few opinions. It's too early for me to be able to really grasp that site though. On his kits do you have to bend the tubes? Think I'll wait and see if the S&S get made. I think I would be very interested in that. Please let us know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kc6wfs Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Hi all, I can be the TEST MULE. It's not even my daily driver and I would love full length headers!!!! I have the Vortec heads/straight plugs. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 I have spoken with Loren at length also and got a good feeling from him also. I am planning on using his header with 1 3/4" primaries. I have my car lowered with Suspension Techniques springs about 1". Put me down for one of the 20 sets for sure... I have to buy them anyway, might as well be now if I gotta!!! let me know. I'll work with ya!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deMideon Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 I'll get a set too! As Long Rod said I've gotta get a set anyway, I'd ratcher have a set of full length ones that fit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needwaymorespeed Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 I talked with loren and bought those headers almost a year ago -had him change the angle of the header colllector like 8 degrees lower than normal- so that the collectors dont hit the floor boards of the car. Dont remember the angle but can look it up in my notes got the info from another hybrid z member who has headers installed on car-info is in the archives. Basically when they weld the header flange to the primary pies they angle the collector up to fit the roadster ,they welded mine with the collectors parralel with the header flanges. The headers are nice but there are some compromises from memory one side is 28 inches long and the other is 34 inches dont remember ds or ps. one side also hangs down lower than the other. My thoughts have been to cut the collectors off and weld on the collectors available from flowmaster-pulse tech scavenger collectors-there about 23 inches long and go 4 into two, two into one-could equalize the header lengths this way. They are claimed too add 15 hp -havent seen any real world testing though. Curtis Realize this isnt much help if you have ground clearance probs, just another option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Johnson Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 I have the headers installed on my car. To keep it simple you could ask him to raise the tubes on the right side to clear a small starter. If he brought them up 3/4" it would about match the other side. Then angle the collectors down about 6 to 8 degrees and switch to a 2 1/2 collector. Although I am sure it could be improved from here, he should be able to make these changes without the complication of a test mule. If you do use a test mule someday, don't the vortec heads have the exhaust ports about 1/4" higher than the old OEM style? This may give more ground clearance but cause more of an issue with collector clearance. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted March 27, 2002 Author Share Posted March 27, 2002 After reading Ed's feelings about stepped headers, I think I want to do more research. He's a little different, but may be right. I know I'll pick up low end torque using the 1 5/8, but at a substatial hp loss on the top end. I think his kits come with a huge assortment of bends, straight, flanges etc. Pretty pricey, too. If we can't generate enough interest, I'll probably buy the S&S, see what Loren, their engineer can do to make the installation easier w/o going to a whole new design, then modify as needed. Overall they seem to have a good placement in the Z. Primary lengths are already a little short to be ideal, but again some compromise may be in order. Worst case, I'll change out my springs tires and gain a couple inches that way. After two more days of reading, one thing for sure, I'm NOT going to put on 1 5/8 headers on a 6-7000 rpm 383 300 cfm head! JS JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted March 27, 2002 Author Share Posted March 27, 2002 Everyone who can add to list of potential improvements please do so. Especially those with experience running installing. This would be sooo cool to have a good fitting full length. The late camaro starter is only about 2 7/8 in diameter. Should help to get that side up a bit. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Yes gents!! Loren at S&S was most helpful! The header set is called the full length block hugger header model # 5205. He has a pic of it on his website. He is willing to make small mods to it if we get what we need to him before the next batch is run in about 4 wks. The base model has 1 3/4" primaries that dump into a 3" collector. S&S is willing to work with any one of us or as a group to reduce the collector to 2 1/2" and "point" or angle the collector end in whatever fashion for clearance problems to make the best fit. I think 2 or 3 of our forum members(Andy Bayley is one)have installed this model already. Any "coaching and Counselling" would be appreciated!! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 OK, OK... I've been a little pre-occupied with life the last week or so.. I'm in and in in a big way... Let me know what I need to do and who needs cash or committment... I need these headers, and my only other options are making my own or going with a 1 3/4 block hugger by Flow Tech.....The last option would be the easiest since I had their 1 5/8th units prior to this buildup... Let me know what you guys or S&S needs. My motor should be back together and in the car in four weeks, so I could be the test mule, if that timing works! Mike Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted March 29, 2002 Author Share Posted March 29, 2002 OK we need details from those already using the SS header. This head on picture from Dewzenol's site is the only reference I have for comparing the left and right side discrepancy. www.gatewayzclub.com/members/dewzenol/images/z%20pics/moreheadersandfitt ingengine/_DCP_0225.jpg (funny UBB image won't let me post, proabably a Mac thing) The passenger side hangs way, way lower than the driver's. Rick, was the reduction to a 2 1/2 collector and leveling of the collector enough for good floor pan clearance? If turning the collector in, similar to some vette designs, how many degrees would be beneficial? Could we miss the floor pans altogether? Also how much clearance is there on the starter side to the starter. The new minis and late model camaro are slightly less than 3" in diameter. Andy, Needwaymorespeed, Rick, & anyone else, we can learn a lot from what you already know. Your detailed input would be greatly appreciated. When we have our improvements in order, I would be glad to discuss our requests with Loren and find out where we need to go from there. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kc6wfs Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Here is the image. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagz Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 If we can get the details worked out I am DEFINATELY IN on a "group buy" if S&S is going to set up a run of these tweaked headers. Otherwise, I was planning on going the Flow Tech block hugger route like Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Johnson Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Mine looks exactly like the picture above. The lowest point for the 4 pipes is towards the front of the car. The pipes actually angle up slightly as you travel back towards the collector. There is no reason for the pipes to be so low because there is a lot of clearance to the starter. The right side on mine hangs 3/4 inch lower than the left. I did have S & S angle the 2 1/2" collectors down from their original configuration. I think it was 5 or 6 degrees. I oriented the collector bolts so that one of the 3 faced directly down. This gave maximum clearance between the body and the collector. Unfortunately the collector does rub the ground sometimes but such is life. If someone made a 4 bolt or sturdy 2 bolt collector, the added clearance would probably eliminate all contact issues. I strongly suggest someone try the changes before having the headers coated since Murphy says some additional changes will be required for perfection. Rick Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gprix1 Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Count me in too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needwaymorespeed Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 I havent installed mine yet I basically had done what rick did. curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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