Guest Your Car is Slow Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Are the toyota 4 piston calipers really a direct bolt on to the 240z front rotors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 I believe there is a set that does, and a set that doesn't. There are also Mazda 4 pot which are the same company, but haven't seen them used successfully yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Toyota 79-85' all had solid axles and rotors, these calipers are a bolt deal. 86-95' were IFS and have vented rotors. Within the IFS years they had V6 calipers 88-95' that have 4 large pistons compared to the 4 vented that had 2 large and 2 small pistons. You need the 79-85 calipers for stock 240Z brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 I find the stock brakes with steel lines, extremely powerfull. Without going to a vented rotor, I am of the opinion that doing anything with the brakes, other than good pads/fluid/steel lines and brake ducting is a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Your Car is Slow Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Im all about savin money....I just found the stock brakes suck (sofar)...but that could just be due to a myriad of other problems im slowing working out of the car. Amazing what happens to a car thats 30 years old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 A race type pad, I've used Axxis metal masters, make a huge difference in reducing brake fade. I do agree with Mudge, the stock solid rotor definatly limits you, even with a larger caliper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Your Car is Slow Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Are we talking race conditions here? or just normal stopping? Im not running autox ....but this car will see high speeds during dragging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 I was talking about for street use but drag racing isn't too hard on brakes. No threshhold braking, one stop every now and then. If you are experiencing brake fade with cheap pads, a race worthy streetable pad will make a big difference. Stock brakes work great under street conditions, and can handle a couple of hard stops. It's just when you make repeated stops at high speeds lap after lap that the heat cannot dissipate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Your Car is Slow Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Gotcha....I think Ill replace the stock bubble lines with some SS lines on the front (rears dont work anyway) anyone know if the rear brakes are even that much of a factor in braking? (kinda like my old impala ss where less than 20% of the braking power went to the rear brakes. I figure a real nice beefy setup on the front...and no rears (removed for weight)...might work quite well for a drag only use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 i liked the 4x4 swap, but when i did it to my old car i did the ss lines and a bigger mc from a zx, as well as upgrading the shoes and putting on new drums. recently, i just bolted on used drilled rotors and newish calipers with semi metallic pads, and found them to stop just as good, with a little less brake torque, now im a firm believer in the stock setup for a street car, this setup brakes well for me, adn im still using stock master cylinder. but, the 4x4 with slotted rotors is good for track and if you like to real real fast a lot on the street with repeated 60-0 brake stomps. generally on the street, after one close one, i dont really have to use the brakes very hard afterwards because i would no longer be driving so dang fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 This is what I have been passing around from my notes. Your asking about Port B just note the OR and the years as they are different. Large Four Piston Front Brakes with Vented Rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lugs: Port A Labeled as such only due to the fact that they use all stock Nissan and Toyota parts that can be adapted for use on the 1970-78 Z car. Major parts include: 1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder 1970-73 Nissan Z hubs 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern 1984-85 Nissan 300ZX front rotors 4 X 4 1/16†bolt pattern 1988-92 Toyota 4X4 V6 pickup front calipers marked ‘S12W’ OR 1995-00 Toyota 4-Runner 4X4 V6 front calipers marked ‘S13WB’ Eight bolts grade 10.9, 8 X 1.25 thread diameter and pitch 40 mm long with lock washers Two metal spacer as listed below; O.D. 155 mm I.D. 81 mm Thickness 17 mm Four 10.5 mm holes spaced 4 1/16†equidistance The front dust shield must be trimmed to accommodate the larger caliper or they will rub and wheel clearance is an issue with older rear wheel drive wheels, the caliper has a protrusion of about 20 mm over stock using the ‘S12W’ version and 28 mm over stock using the ‘S13WB’ version. You can use your old brake lines if you gently bend them to fit, just make sure they don’t touch or they will rub a hole in the brake lines. Small Four Piston Front Brakes with Solid or Vented Rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lugs: Port B Labeled as such only due to the fact that they use all stock Nissan and Toyota parts that can be adapted for use on the 1970-78 Z car. Major parts include: 1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder 1970-78 Nissan Z hubs 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern 1970-78 Nissan Z rotors 4 X 4 1/16†bolt pattern 1979-85 Toyota 4X4 4 cylinder pickup with solid rotor, front calipers marked ‘S12+8’ OR 1986-88 Toyota 4X4 4 cylinder pickup with vented rotor, front calipers marked ‘S12+8’ 1984-85 Nissan 300ZX front rotors 4 X 4 1/16†bolt pattern Eight bolts grade 10.9, 8 X 1.25 thread diameter and pitch 40 mm long with lock washers Two metal spacer as listed below; O.D. 155 mm I.D. 81 mm Thickness 17 mm Four 10.5 mm holes spaced 4 1/16†equidistance The front dust shield must be trimmed to accommodate the larger caliper or they will rub and wheel clearance is an issue with older rear wheel drive wheels, the caliper has a protrusion of about 8 mm over stock using the solid rotor version and 20 mm over stock using the vented rotor version. You can use your old brake lines if you gently bend them to fit, just make sure they don’t touch or they will rub a hole in the brake lines. I've had a few spacers made but the cost is just about what you can buy them aftermarket, I would recommend the aftermarket route to anyone doing this conversion using the spacer. It's much easier and faster. Hope this helps. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Mike, that was very nice information there. I cannot verify it's validity, but it appears to be very complete and finally a single-source text about this brake upgrade. I have a question about lumping all the Z hubs together (port B?). This is because the Z hubs had differing thicknesses on the flange that spaces the rotor in relationship to the caliper between different years or models. The early Z (240) had a 17mm flange, which set the rotor "x" distance from the caliper centerline. The later model Z had a thicker flange of 25mm (I believe). This then moves the rotor (rotor only) inboard 8mm more than if the earlier hubs were used (this new offset was countered by the factory by now making the Z rotors with 8mm less offset than the earlier rotors). This "x-8mm" distance now sets the rotor in a different location in relationship to the caliper centerline. Please correct me if I have misread your information, and again, thanks for compiling this data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Nice listing Mike, and yes you're right Terry. 240Z/280Z/300ZX hubs are all different in thickness and spacer requirements. My own spacers (all sizes on the shelf, some even anodized at present ) are made to fit hubcentrically to the hub perfectly and bolt holes are sized quite snug to specifically mate with the hardware used (ie. 10.5 noted above would be sloppy on mine). I'll have a pic of all 3 hubs up on my website shortly for reference at this location: http://Vented 4x4 Brake Package info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30Z Bushido Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 do you guys think that the toyota calpiers on stock rotors would fit under my 14x7in wheels? i'm going to pick a set up very soon, but i don't want to buy them if i have to change my wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Concerns to my earlier post, this brake info is only for the 1970-78 Z car and does not apply to the 79 and later...I sometimes forget that they made other varieties of Z's. Port B: The original written version did not include the OR so you are correct that if you use the 1986-88 Toyota pick-up caliper and 1984-85 300zx rotor you will have spacers and hub issues. The original Port B only inlucded the 1979-84 Toyota pick-up caliper which is not used with the larger vented rotor. If you use the existing stock 1970-78 Z rotors and hubs requardless of what year car you have you will have no issues with the offset (as I call it). All 1970-78 Z cars used the same front caliper and the part number reflects this. Only with the later vented rotor and caliper do you need to have concern for the year of car. Thanks for noteing that for me, I will make the neccessary corrections to avoid any confusion in the future. As for the 10.5 mm bolt holes, a hand held drill in the garage is not easy to get precision results. As I assume anyone attempting to make them would be useing such tools. Wheel clearance it's easy to determine: First you need to measure the inset of the wheel caliper area (as I call it). This is the area of the wheel where the caliper exists when the wheel is bolted onto the front hub. Using a small steel ruler, lay the ruler over the backside of the wheel on the hub area. Using a second steel ruler measure the distance from the wheel to the wheel. Mine are older than dirt 'appliance' wheels from the 70's era which measure 9 mm. One peice of information not included is that the stock caliper is even with the hub so all protrution measurements are stickout beyond the hub. Now use the Port listing you can see what depth over stock is required: S12W=20 mm S13WB=28 mm S12+8 solid rotor=8 mm S12+8 vented rotor=20 mm Wheel depth minus caliper protrution equals clearance. 9 mm - 8 mm = 1 mm So you can see that the largest caliper I can use is the S12+8 solid rotor caliper with 1mm of clearance. OUCH!!! That is close!!! With the addition of a 1/4" wheel spacer you only gain 6.35 mm. 9 mm + 6.35 mm = 15.35 mm so even with a 1/4" spacer I can only run the S12+8 solid rotor...Unless I modify the wheel and/or caliper. I hope that this helps, a bit confuseing but I have pics to demonstrate what this mess is trying to convey. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Here is the rest of the Port list, note that Port C is Ross C's converstion so no need to print that. Small Rear Disk Brake Conversion 280ZX 4 X 4 1/2†lugs: Port D Labeled as such only due to the fact that they use all stock Nissan parts that can be adapted for use on the 1970-78 Z car. Major parts include: 1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder 1982-83 Nissan 280ZX rear caliper and hangers 1982-83 Nissan 280ZX rear rotor 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern 1980-84 Nissan 810 Nissan Maxima Sedan rear brackets that have the floating dust shield No E-Brake extension available after market but they can easily be fabricated. Rear axle must be removed to install the hub brackets. Bone Stock Small Rear Disk Conversion Maxima 4 X 4 1/2†lugs: Port E Labeled as such only due to the fact that they use all stock Nissan parts that can be adapted for use on the 1970-78 Z car. Major parts include: 1979-81 Nissan 280ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder 1979-81 Nissan 280ZX rear brake calipers and hangers 1979-81 Nissan 280ZX rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern 1980-84 Nissan 810 Maxima Sedan rear brackets that have the screwed-on dust shield E-brake extension is available after market and they can easily be fabricated. Rear axle must be removed to install the hub brackets. One add on, if you use the S13WB caliper with it's stock pads you will need to remove the outboard pads wear sensor with a grinder. You can use the S12W pads without modifiying them as they are the exact same pads except for the outboard pad wear sensor. Enjoy! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z_Master Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Toyota 79-85' all had solid axles and rotors, these calipers are a bolt deal. 86-95' were IFS and have vented rotors. Within the IFS years they had V6 calipers 88-95' that have 4 large pistons compared to the 4 vented that had 2 large and 2 small pistons. You need the 79-85 calipers for stock 240Z brakes. So would AE-85 or AE-86 brakes work on the Z? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 do you guys think that the toyota calpiers on stock rotors would fit under my 14x7in wheels? i'm going to pick a set up very soon, but i don't want to buy them if i have to change my wheels. It depends on the wheel, I have them on 14X6 Weld Wheels. They fit, but I had to grind down the casting hump facing the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grunt0311 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Ok not to beat a dead horse. But here is my question. I just put 1980 toyota 4X4 front calipers on my fairlady. First they didnt come with the pins so I had to go to toyota and get some for an 80 4X4 and they were short. So I thought hell they probably just gave me the 4X2 ones and just drilled the opening about a 1/4 inch and the fit no problem. But now that I have the pads on I notice the rotor is definately not centered in between the pads. The rotors were marked S12 + 8. Is there a difference between the 6 and 4 cylinder brakes? Will I need to get spacers or is that ok if the rotor is not centered? thanks for any info. grunt0311 70 fairlady uglleeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Here is more information from my notes. 4X4 and V6 DO play a factor but only on the 1975-85 and 1986-88 S12+8 caliper. Those years use either a vented or solid rotor so they have different dimentions for the rotor to fit though the caliper. As long as the rotor does not rub on the rotor I see no issues. By the way FIF is Female Inverted Flare and the other stuff is 10 mm shank with 1.0mm thread pitch. The protrusion over stock is the distance of stick out of the caliper from the stock mounting location. S12+8 Toyota 1979-85 Pickup 4X4, Solid cast rotor, infeed FIF 10X1.0 mm, protrusion over stock 96 mm. S12+8 Toyota 1986-88 Pickup 4X4, Vented cast rotor, infeed FIF 10X1.0 mm, protrusion over stock 108 mm. S12W Toyota 1988-92 Pickup 4X4 V6, Vented cast rotor, infeed FIF 10X1.0 mm, protrusion over stock 118 mm. S12+8 Toyota 1989-91 4-Runner 4X4, Vented cast rotor, infeed FIF 10X1.0 mm, protrusion over stock 108 mm. S12W Toyota 1992-95 4-Runner 4X4 V6, Vented cast rotor, infeed FIF 10X1.0 mm, protrusion over stock 118 mm. S13WB Toyota 1993-98 T-100 4X4, Vented cast rotor, infeed FIF 10X1.0 mm, protrusion over stock 116 mm. S13WB Toyota 1995-00 4-Runner 4X4 V6, Vented cast rotor, infeed FIF 10X1.0 mm, protrusion over stock 116 mm. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.