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Guest Anonymous

Brute Speed Z Project!!

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Guest Anonymous

Hey there everyone, just found this board.

I guess I just need to bounce some ideas off of the experienced people, so here goes:

 

I'm planning this in a 77 280Z. 383 Stroker 4 bolt at 10.5:1, TH400 auto tranny, Ford 9" rear, 4.10 gears, not sure about slicks but maybe a 27" slick in the back, gutted interior (just a drivers seat). Anyone have any ideas/suggestions that'll make my life a little easier (ie: the car faster in the 1/4 mile)? I am going for pure 1/4 mi speed here... it's going to be trailered to and from the track.

 

Thanks for the help in advance!

Thom

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Hey Thom,

you might want to consider a full 12 point cage and sub frame connectors, ditching the heavy bumpers and replacing the glass with Lexan. I'd also look into gutting the doors, and cutting out the spare tire well and installing a fuel cell!

 

I'm running a 10:1 compression 383 stroker with 3:7 gears and a T56 six speed. With slicks and gutting the car, and running those short geear, you might see 9's if you are lucky!

 

Mike Kelly

 

------------------

 

"I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!"

mjk

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Guest Anonymous

Thanks for the reply Mikelly...

I was planning on ditching everything not absolutely necessary on the outside and inside. I'd never thought about lexan though, interesting idea. Is this that much lighter thatn glass? Where would I get this modification done?

 

I am also thinking of building this engine from the ground up to withstand anywhere around a 200-250 shot of nitrous from some sort of pro fogger II system. Anyone have any ideas where, in the 1/4 mi, 650+ hp would get me? smile.gif *evil chuckle*

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you can order lexan or have it made for your car, but yes, it is way lighter than your glass. Just the windshield alone will knock off a bunch of weight. Now start replacing every window.....You are looking at 100#+ in the swap. I'd also think about getting some glass fenders, hood, and hatch, maybe even doors! Arizona Z car can hook you up and he can tell you where to get Lexan for your Z!

 

Mike

 

------------------

 

"I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!"

mjk

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XtrmSpeedFrk,

 

I saw a car like what you describe at a "Super Chevy " show a few years ago, except that he had a 406 (on nitrous) and a Powerglide. It seems that hard core drag racers prefer the powerglide automatics. The guy ran mid 9's, with all-steel body (except for fiberglass hood), subframe connectors, minimal roll cage, and Ford 9" rear hung off a 4-link. I'd venture to say that the hardest part of your project - by far - will be changing the rear suspension. That's a lot of custom work, and its not covered in the various V8 Z conversion literature. Nevertheless, NHRA rules apparently state that you can't run faster than 11.00 with an independent rear axle. Perhaps you'll write a tech article on the subject when you're done???

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Michael,

 

Is that " no IRS below 11.00" the updated ruling? I'd heard that they had lowered it for the Vipers. Is the 11.00 the lowered number or the previous on of a few years ago?

 

I don't have a current NHRA book, but a neighbor does - I borrow it from her (no kidding, she has a car she trailers to the track every weekend. Sorry guys, she's happily married wink.gif ).

 

Pete

 

------------------

Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - E-mail: pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net -

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Guest Anonymous

Thanks for the ideas guys...I'll call around and get some prices for lexan today! smile.gif

 

Michael, I was planning a 400 bored, but I have heard there are some major problems with them. One of them was the un-equal power to each cylinder...yuck. I figure a correctly tuned 383 can outpower a 400+ anyways smile.gif

 

What do you suppose the powerglide offers that the TH350 doesn't? I'll research it a little more. Gimme a couple of months and I'll write a tech article on it! After I clean the blood off my hands and quit swearing...heh.

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Guest RON JONES

Forget about the th400 and the th350.Powerglide is the only way to go.I own a car that sounds like what your shooting for.I use to run a th400 and evreyone told me to get a glide.I don,t know why but powerglides didn,t apeal to me for some reason.A frend had a spare one,so I tried it.Went from 9teens to 8.80,s right of the trailer.Trust me,for what you want to do get a glide.Depending on the weight of your car,650hp should give you mid to low 9,s if you get it down to 2600lbs with you in it.Do some home work on the 400 smallblock.Theres nothing wrong with this motor if its done correctly.Joe sherman race engines in cal. has had great success with this motor.BTW don,t forget to get transbrake in that glide.

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Guest Anonymous

Thanks ron. I think I will go with the powerglide. What will the transbrake do exactly? Also, would the ford 9" be the optimum rear for my purpose?

 

I think I will stick with the 383 stroker setup, just for the reason that I am no expert. I don't have the knowhow to make a 400 work the way I want it to reliably and don't have the money to just buy one! smile.gif

 

To anyone: What kind of fabrication is involved with hangin a ford 9'er on the Z?

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Guest RON JONES

Thom,a transbrake is a solenoid in the transmissions valve body.What it does is when actavated (by a push button)it puts the trans in 1st and reverse gear at the same time,locking the trans.When the button is released the solenoid takes the trans out of reverse and away you go.Whats nice about it is you can leave at wide open throtle with out the car rolling out,it won,t move like if you were trying to powerbrake it.The 9" ford rear is the best way to go.Its stronger and lighter than a 12bolt.You asked how much work is involved hanging it?Alot!you need to get somebody that knows what there doing to install the rear and 4link.Its not an easy job.Doing it yourself could be tuff.

 

[This message has been edited by RON JONES (edited February 15, 2000).]

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Guest RON JONES

I,took it for granted we were talking after market.Sorry.Something you might want to be aware of, the 9" is easyer to work on.The 12bolt dosn,t have a removable center.Gear and bearing changes are alot easyer on a work bench.And upgradeing a 9" with a aluminum center makes them alot lighter.you can,t do that with a 12bolt.

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There is shop here in Conroe that does really

nice work and his cars go straight I think the average price for fab work is around 35.00 per hour. When i had him look at my car i think we came up with 3500 including

parts.... Where are you located??

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Guest Anonymous

Myron,

I am in washington state. I think I'll attempt to have a go at it myself, I don't have that kind of money yet.

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Guest Anonymous

Snoqualmie, almost! smile.gif

I don't suppose I could leave the stock rear-end in for a bit while I build the 350 up could I? It wouldn't do anything more than trips around the block... (forgive my stupidity, I'm a new Z'er...heh)

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Guest RON JONES

Xtrm,you can run the stock rear,just don,t use that trans brake yet.I,d wait till you put in a stronger rear for those kind of launchs.You can still install the powerglide with the trans brake,just refrain from useing it.Save your money and do it right.Most of the guys here run stock rears.My first Z car had a stock r180, and I went 11.40,s with a 355sb chevy that was pretty close to stock except for a B&M 144 supper charger.

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XTRM,

Ron is making perfect sense... Take your time and do it right. That stock rear will hold up if you go easy on it. Don't do any holeshots with it and baby it until you are rolling and you should be able to drive it for a bit until you figure out which route you are gonna take with the rear!

 

That also goes for any project, do it right the first time and you won't have to go back and fix a broken car.

My $.02

 

------------------

 

"I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!"

mjk

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Guest Anonymous

Thanks guys....

That's great about the stock rear end working...makes it easier to test that bad boy! smile.gif

What about the stock tranny? Think it'll work temporarily?

 

Thom

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Actually the 12 bolt is lighter than a 9 inch, and in stock form is stronger. The 9 inch is only stronger when you start adding all the aftermarket stuff to it, which rises the cost of it. Plus the 9" uses more HP than a 12 bolt, because the pinion is lower in the case (causes more drag).Insalling it is not easy, it's a lot of work. I installed my own 12 bolt, but did a lot of fabricating to get it in there.

 

Mike kZ

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Guest Anonymous

Mike,

That just threw me off... I'm not sure which to use now..lol. I found a 9" today w/ coil and a bunch of other goodies for $800, would I be better off with a 12 bolt? What's the hardest part of installing either of these? Doesn't seem like it would be extremely difficult for 2 people, just some metal fabbing...right?

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Don't get me wrong, the 9 inch is a very good diff. If you got a good deal, buy it! Make sure this diff your looking at is the right length for your car with the wheels and tires on it.If it is, then the fun begins! You need to cut out the whole back floor with the stock frame. Then build a new frame to mount the diff and clear your tire combo. You need to make new tubs (wheel wells), and figure out how to mount the new suspension. Everything has to be level and straight!Lots of measuring! This is a simplified version. You may want a pro to do this if you have never done something like this. Hope this helps, and good luck!

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Guest Anonymous

Thanks Mike...What price range would this run if I had a pro do it? I just need to get an idea, $1000? $10,000? smile.gif

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Wow, this thread grew quickly....

 

Anyway, let's first mention an obvious but important thing about the stock rear end - make sure it's an R200, not an R180. If you have a 70-74 240/260 or automatic 280, you're saddled with an R180 - but it's a bolt-in swap for the R200. I had to do it with my car parked next to the curb on the street (no garage, sadly).

 

Regarding costs of a 4-link and Ford 9" combo.... I was quoted $5000 for parts and labor, from a very competatively priced one-man shop. Basically, you have to "back half" the car. That means not only work on the body and subframe, but also on the rear axle (shortening the housing, custom axles, etc. - and maybe even custom brakes). On the other hand, getting parts for the Ford 9" vs. the Datsun unit is like getting parts for the Chevy SB vs. the L28; cheaper, stronger, far better selection.

 

Alternatively, you could retain the independent rear suspension and install either a Ford 9" center section with custom halfshafts, or use shortened Oldsmobile Toronado halfshafts, or even an Olds Toronado center section. This is not a common swap, but some chassis gurus (such as Herb Adams) claim that the Olds swap is cleaner and stronger than the Jag or Corvette. But I've never heard of it done to a Z.

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