Mudge Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 1: We never TOOK OVER Kuwait after liberating THEM from Iraq's terror in 1991??? Well, premium was only about $1.20ish here IIRC not $2.35! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 A wannabe politican here in NC, who can't get himself elected, writes a syndicated newspaper column. He's normally a little liberal for my taste, but a recent column about the OIL issue was right on IMO. I can't quote him verbatim, but this is the gist of it. This war is all about OIL. But not for the reasons a lot of people think. If you want to be a military power, you must first be an economic power. Military hardware is very expensive, and most jerkoff dictators who want to do a lot of damage can't afford to do much. But because of Irag's OIL, this gives Saddam the economic means to acquire weapons of mass destruction, either buying them or building them. He has proven that he is willing to use all the weapons he can acquire to achieve his goals, one of them being the downfall of the US. The OIL gives him the money to acquire WMD, and eventually he will. It will then be only a matter of time until he uses them against the US. So it is about OIL, or more correctly, using the economic power of OIL in an irresponsible manner. Until a government is in place in Irag to use that power of OIL in a sensible manner, we are in danger. I thought that was a little different perspective on the OIL issue, and a good one. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 John, I think the more correct way to say it would be the it's about money and the WMD power that it can buy a rogue leader like Saddam. When people say it's about oil, they generally mean that they think the US is trying to take over Iraq to get it's oil. And I fully agree with the writer's sentiment. If he was a typical third world dictator, we wouldn't have to worry TOO much. But buying WMD isn't incredibly expensive either. A few Nukes, a small amount of chem/bio can do incredible harm. And there are people around the world willing to sell it. Saddam is just one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Pete, I agree fully. Some people seem to think Bush wants to take over Irag and give it to Haliburton, and I don't think that's the case at all. The point is that Saddam is a rogue leader with ill intent towards the US, and significant financial resources. He cannot be allowed to exercise those ill intents. I did not mean to discredit Mike's post; I agree with it 100%. I wish we could come up with a cheap fuel we could produce right here in the US that would work in our existing powerplants. Then the camel jockeys could go back to being camel jockeys again. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 John, Spot on. It isn't about the US wanting to control the oil prices... But about Saddam Leveraging against his countrie's only asset to gain more power within the region. Mudge, The reason we are paying more for oil has to do with a couple of things. One is the Venezuela (SP??) strike that took place in January and Febuary, and the fact that any time an oil producing nation is at war it does have an effect on OPEC. Also, we must remember that the comparison of what we pay for now in gasoline is also based on 11 years AFTER, which means the dollar isn't worth what it was 11 years ago (Inflation). Couple that with the fact that we have predators in OPEC and HERE in America who want to exploit the situation. That is wrong and if you guys want to REALY protest, I recommend starting at your highest priced gas stations... I'm paying $1.52 for regular and $1.72 for premium! Good discussion here guys... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 China, Pakistan, India, Iran, North Korea, etc etc. What's the missing link: Oil!! You forgot a couple of things. With the exception of North Korea, none of these countries has invaded another country. And if you read about North Korea, you will know that the US, as part of a UN coalition, invaded and totally defeated North Korea. It was only after China counter attacked that the 38th parallel was established. North Korea is a terrorist state, one that is so incapable of feeding it's own people they had to recently pass laws banning cannibalism (God's honest fact). It is theorized that the Taepo Dong missile will eventually be able to reach the US, but can't at this time and never will in any kinds of numbers. If it wasn't for a nuclear capable China there would only be one Korea. And no, the North Korean army is so antiquated that the only reason they are a threat is China. Blood for oil. I don't understand this concept. I guess a simple statement for simple, uninformed minds. The problem is infinitely more complicated than that. To people that always accuse the US of thinking of it's own interest, I ask you what our motivation was for Kosovo? Oil? Money? Coca Cola? Get real. Why have we kept US troops in South Korea and Germany for the past 60 f'ing years? How effective would South African sanctions have been without US support. And Somalia. What was our self serving goal there? I think this country, with some notable exceptions, tries to do the right thing. The big problem we have had is determining what is right. The problem with oil is oil means money and money makes it possible for a mad man to brutalize innocent people. Only a simple minded fool would think otherwise. There is an old saying emblazed on the Holocaust memorial in the Baltimore inner harbor. It says he who fails to learn from history is condemned to relive it. Giving Czechoslovakia to the Nazi’s sure didn’t buy “Peace in Our Time†nor avoid the holocaust. Attempting to appease some mad man who has been estimated to have killed 2 MILLION of his own people because "he is not a threat to us" is an act of sheer cowardice. Eventually Saddam's oil money WILL yield him nuclear weapons. Better to deal with it now rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 http://komo1000news.com/audio/kvi_aircheck_031003.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 That is wrong and if you guys want to REALY protest' date=' I recommend starting at your highest priced gas stations... I'm paying $1.52 for regular and $1.72 for premium! [/quote'] I live in CA, gas is not that cheap here, http://www.gaspricewatch.com As for inflation, its 2-5% a year, not 10% a year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETEW Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Mike Kelly I couldn't have said anything better myself. I have a real problem with people who are still rallying against a war that is allready going on. Spend your energy supporting our troops, or do something to help the Red Cross. I hear these arguments about other dictatorships that we aren't attacking, so it has to be about the oil. You hear the we aren't doing anything about Korea then. People need to realize that Korea is Chinas immediate problem and will be dealt with. China is a world power, or soon to be, and will have to bear some of that responsibility. Right now we are the worlds police and, though it is not a popular role, I never hear anyone complain when they need our aid in money, or military support. I could go on and on about all this but I won't bore you. The war while not a good thing is a necessary one. The chance that Iraq could become a democracy will mean great things for them as a country and less terrorist support. I hope that the troops come home safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Mudge, the United States Government has NOTHING to do with fuel pricing. That is left up to OPEC (International Organization) and the individual retailers who will take every advantage of this... It will get worse before it gets better. I predict we will see well over $3 per gallon before the end of the year. You have OPEC and the retailers to thank... That and a harsh winter, and the other reasons I list above... Don't get me wrong... It sucks having to dump $32 in the tank of my pickup (Regular unleaded) every time I fill up. But Bush isn't to blame... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRJoe Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I think the lastest news can sum the whole issue up easily: - GW claimed SH had chemical/biological weapons despite agreeing not to - SH had refused the inspectors access - SH claimed he had no such weapons (Despite using them on Iran and Iraq (Kurds)) - GW sends in the troops - SH(?) claims his troops will use CHEMICAL/BIOLOGICAL Weapons if US troops try to enter Bagdahd If SH wasn't lying WHERE DID THOSE WEAPONS come from ?????????? They just proved GW right, it had to be done to protect the WORLD from the weapons. - JMHO - Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave240Z Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Interesting link about the protesters. http://homepage.mac.com/evancm/brain-terminal/peace-protest-hq.wmv I won't comment on anything else other than to say I'm glad to see there are a lot of fellow American's who feel the same way I do. Whatever your stance is on this, I think we can all agree that this should be over as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay1970Z Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 It's true, the war does have a lot to do with oil! French oil, German oil, Russian oil... As for the US abandoning diplomacy, the French said they would veto ANY proposal for a resolution in Iraq in the UN Security Council. The French were also planning on helping Saddam build a nuclear reactor and have sold him many French vehicles, Peugot's, Renault's, etc. But then again, most of the stuff the French build is garbage anyway, so we shouldn't be too worried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest livewire23 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 interesting video dave. You're right, those people couldnt back themselves up worth shit. They just hear stuff on the radio and repeated it. alright, onto my point. I was hoping that I wasnt gonna have to go and expose my lunatic radical side, but here goes. 1. They located the weapons? They used them against our troops? Well damn, MSNBC sure has crappy news coverage. oh wait, I've been out all day. I'll watch the news and see what I missed. 2 hours later i finally hear mention of alledged orders for RG troops to use their chem weapons. 2.Well, people send reps to the UN to lie all the time. What else is new? 3.yea, well, he's a sneaky devil trying to keep from getting kicked out of power. 4. Last time I checked, they said the anthrax had been tracked back to a US facility. 5. Umm, maybe I just didnt hear about this one. Last I heard the evidence of connections were shaky, especially in comparision to countries like our good friends the pakistanis. May I remind you that there are known training camps in pakistan and its a main recruiting center for Osama. 6. That's true. It's really f'ed up, and im sorry that anyone had to be there to see it, especially you. 7. yes, yes it did. Now if we are so big on stopping terrorists, why not greenlight the russians to slaughter em? I'm not convinced about the whole oil issue, but some have argued that perhaps its because we've got absolutely nilch to gain by wiping out the chechens. However, regardless of oil or otherwise, we have much to gain by having a friendly govn't in Iraq. Yea, the germans are tapped, but why go against the war? Why not just say, go ahead, we'll just sit and watch? I watch german news, that's NOT what they're saying. However they are nice enough to let us use their bases as staging grounds. Korea scares me too. And i heard they recently re-started their nuclear program. India and pakistan would blow each other to smithereens before they ever touch us. They really hate each other though. One other thing. A lot of the people in that vid couldnt answer the question regarding why we didnt grab the oil fields in the first gulf war. The first war was definately justified, we did a good job then, I have no complaints about how it went. I think things would've been easier had we finsihed the job. Well, I've been watching the news while writing this post, clearly thee alledged chemical weapons aren't very important to them. Not to say that they may not be found later. I'd like to menton that I wasnt trying to take anything away from mike. Its clear that he knows a lot of things that we don't, and probably won't for a while yet. It's unfortunate that he cannot share. I had other comments, but I forgot them all. oh yea, the french may have crappy technology, but I think we're being a little to eager to beat them over the head. They've been our good allies for a long while, we should be careful in letting such a good friendship go sour. And also, I wouldnt be so certain that a democracy in Iraq will reduce terrorism. You forget how much the people in that area of the world love us. What really scares me more than anything else regarding this whole matter, is the percentage of people who are developing very strong opinions about the matter. There has been a lot of outrage among the arab/muslim world. much respect to you mike, you present your point well. The more I read it, the more I realize that its not a fickle unsupported argument. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 The French held Ferdinand Porsche prisoner in hopes he would make a "French Peoples Car" like he did for Germany, that took alot of life out of him and he didn't last much longer than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest livewire23 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 lol, mudge. I swear I've heard more good jokes about the french recently than I have in the past 5 years combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Car backfires in downtown Paris - FRANCE SURRENDERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest livewire23 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I have a supply of good guns, previously owned by french army of all eras, never fired, dropped once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny411 Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 I`m glad to see that this thread has stayed relatively civil. The original post was emailed to me from a friend in the armed forces. I had some reservations about posting it here, but I felt it had alot of info that needed to be said. It is absurd for the protestors to think that their demonstrations will make ANY difference in matters of national defense. What IS important, Is that the men and women of the armed forces fighting as we speak to defend our rights and liberties,know that we the American people are behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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