Owen Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 The Sledgehammer is pretty old, here's a guy who's doing this as we speak. You can find him on turbobuick.com in the Performance ECM Upgrades section. http://www.montygwilliams.com/ Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Well for a sobering thought for the day... We have a member here (Few of you even know him!) who has a twin turbo chevy in his Datsun TRUCK producing about 800HP! Now, I don't know if the original poster is for real, just a young guy dreaming of building the ultimate beast and reading way to many magazines while mainlining Jolt, OR trolling for substance... However, I'd recommend that we all keep an open mind... And if it were legal, I'd have mounted a .50 cal LONG AGO for those rush hour sorties! Anyway, Back to the REAL technical part of this idea, I'm with John. Having done a BUNCH of research on getting as much HP as possible out of a powerplant and then putting it into a Zcar. The T56 WILL NOT do for a couple of reasons... Size being one, and the target HP rating being another. Scrap that. Next, In order to do ALL WHEEL DRIVE, prepare to completely remove the trans tunnel and redisng aroung THAT mod. 3rd, Scrap the idea of a 1000HP Twin Turbo RX7 powerplant being had cheap. They don't exist. If you are serious, IF you have a real source to tap on cash with, and if REALLY want to do this, I suggest you get a business plan together and start this thing from scratch as a hobbie/ business to write off on your taxes. Work with some sponsores for advertisement and track everything after you work these technical issues... I've built two cars with the help of sponsores and Uncle Sam... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Mike, Do you have a link to that guy's website with the turbo truck? And what kinda tranny have you come up with as a replacement for the T56? I agree that thing is WAY too big! Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 I had pics of OZ's Truck, but lost them on a hard rive crash. He and I chat regularly, and he trolls here quite a bit. However, I think he was using an Auto for that particular setup since he was building it for 1/4 mile duty. I'm still researching, but I'm swaying towards a Tremec TKO 5 speed RR package. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 I smell at least 50k. I would have maybe believed the T56 could hold up, because you are not going to hook up at all. Now with hook, an Fbody T56 with a much heavier car will break around the 700 HP mark if you are lucky. I know someone who broke his 4 times before moving to a TH400, in a mid 10 second car, now running 9s. Again, that is heavy, and with hook/launch. AWD on a Z is probably going to be an engineering nightmare, my own opinion is to start with a car closer to what you have in mind. Most AWD setups dont handle power very well, and its going to put even more stress on the trans, so again that rules out the T56, a $1500-$3500 transmission is not going to stand up to it, I can't believe you even mentioned it with your plans in mind. Being a road racer, I think its ridiculous to go for 1000 HP, and not to flame you but I likewise question if your a dreamer or being realistic, because HP on a track can be more a crippling thing to have than a blessing, you will be driving on the edge in the most maddening way. I think the 917 idea sounds great, they are nice lookin cars and they can make awesome downforce. Anywho, I could rant and rave about ideas and combos that I myself have dreamed about and etc, but I can't even believe that you've been on a road course or know what real HP is like at this point, because it does NOT add up at all. 1000 HP for a drag car, is another story. Now, here is a project that I could see myself doing, but I would not aim for more than 700HP in probably any road car myself, those Can Am cars dont run anymore for a reason, basically because it was stupid, 1300HP, unusable even with thier insane downforce which is nothing like a street car, a 917 can be setup for 10,000 pounds of downforce and that is an old platform. http://www.ncracing.org/images/pic35.jpg Frankly, I find less power, to a point, more fun. When you can't go WOT for fear of going sideways, it kills the fun of rowing through the gears like a madman. Even with a modest 411 RWHP I went sideways just letting off the gas too quickly, touchy feely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Well Having also spent a lot of time on road courses, I agree that the HP is way betond managable, and forget being smooth. However, My idea of a decent setup wouldn't allow a T56 to last in my perfect Z. I'd be running 14 inch slicks in the back in a nice medium gooyear or Bridgestone compound and my car with all safety gear, fire system, full of fluids and ME in it would probably tip scales at closer to 2900#, and based on what I know of the C5 Vette and Viper ACR race teams, the T56 just won't cut it... I'm also looking at Doug Nash and Jerico as other options for trannys... I'm also open for suggestions! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Guys' date=' this is all pretty amusing, but lets just remember the HybridZ mission statement.Tim[/quote'] Tim, you are all heart, Dude, but the bandwidth that this post has aleady taken....well, you get the idea. All of the 'negative' points brought up MUST be answered by our young friend in order for him to have success, otherwise it is a waste of time, money, and bandwidth. He has not been laughed off this forum at all--in fact, many take him seriously! Do you realize what kind of HP numbers you are talking about with 1000 lb/ft of torque??? Even bigger numbers then that. This whole thread has been academic and that's all it will be. For guys seriously building their cars and/or racing them, posts like his are very humorous because they know just how much money this is going to take. Our new friend may have inherited a large sum or already be rich (odds are against that though) in which case, one of my original questions as to why even do this with a Z car? still makes sense. My $.02. Heavy Z, you rock! The song is even better as a rap Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 C5 Vette I'm looking to get into one in a few months, the Z06 gets a "different" transmission, but other than the ratios I dont know if its a genuinly stronger transaxle (not a T56 ). As for Jerico, I know someone that worked for them, and if you get a good trans or not is really a tossup, some stories behind that one With that much power, your going to be hitting such insane speeds, that there is serious danger of a huge accident, and when you do actually keep the car straight you are going to be needing some $4500 brakes I think, there are some nice Porsche 6 piston kits online for various cars that seem to work well. If you get enough wheel for it, you can get around a 15" rotor under there. After even only a 200HP upgrade in my other car, I am a firm believer in taking things in steps, without experience its going to be not only ugly but dissapointing in a huge way, so I can only assume you are coming from a "too slow" 700HP car or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 If I were you, I'd start looking at rally racing AWD sequential systems. Call around and see what some of those cars are doing or maybe even the Pike's Peak cars. There was a close to 1000HP (I wanna say 4 cylinder, because I was extremely amazed when I say it) Toyota truck running 4wd or AWD. Anywho, I say go Skyline and don't look back, unless you have to funds to do a Z. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Start with a platform thats half way there, I like the Z but what your trying to do is like polishing a turd, but if you have the money there is "no limit." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tt350 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Holy moly! What happened here. Its turned into a flame room against me, and I thought this thread was about the diff. Anyway, I should have explained my situation a little better before I started to give out problems... I am a young guy, and I am building this Z car because it is a very beutiful car and and very light. I wanted to do this becuase 1000 hp skylines are plenty, and they are very heavy cars. I work for a local race shop, and I do have access to a lot of tools and skills. I have also collected a lot of sponsorships for this car. The reson why I say it is 1000 hp, is because it seems that the big boys who want to sponsor a street/show/rrace car, want it to be something really cool. About the aluminum block thingy, just to get it out of the way, my boss (who owns the race shop), says that they can warp from diffrent things, and break more easily than cast iron. But I was just asking to see if anyone is familiar with the aluminum dart block, because I heard it was very capable. I have looked into the Rocket Block, and that seems to be a very good way to go (thanks for the answer man). One thing I was very surprised about is that you all seemed to forget that a Turbo engine has adjustable boost, meaning adjustable HP. I know it will be very hard to race with 1000 hp, but that figure is a very good selling point. OK, the AWD thingy. I have never worked woth AWD cars before, so I knew very little about them (and I was planning to explore, but dont have the time), so I axed you guys. Not much help there. I have however found a 240z in japan with an Rb26DETT that had the AWD system from the skyline, just to let you know. And, im sorry for the confusion, but I Did NOT mean I wanted to use the T56 with the AWD drivetrain (gimme a break people). Also, I was very blind to the whole rotary thing, and I was in a hurry that day, so I decided to ask if it would be a wise (and cheaper decision) to switch to rotary. Guess not huh. The Flames: ok honostly, I thought that poem/song thing was cool (creativity), but to actually make up a whole song in response to a thread question, im sorry man, but you need to get yourself a life. And the Z with the SU-27 jet, that was just one of the most pathatic attempts at irony I have ever seen. No hard feelings yall, just wanted to straighten things up. This thread grew more than I thought it would (unneccesarily, unforutnatly). Just to let you know, I am not rich, but I am a good driver, and I have raced before (1989 BMW M3, SCCA). So i really think I can pull this off, so why the hell do you guys wanna put down all that charisma for. Jeez, I mean just let me try. I am sticking to the 377 with a single turbo (dont flame me for this too), and Im still looking for AWD possibilities. I know now that the T56 cant handl much, and I thank you all for the input (which got a little excessive). So Ill probably have to shell out the few extra dollars for a race tranny, or just go straight to the AWD. And the whole point of this thread was to find out which diff to use, so ill goin with the R230 until I switch to the AWD. Thanks, I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tt350 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Oh ya Mudge, is that your car in the pic? I mean that thing looks sweet man. And whats wrong with goin sideways at WOT, i think its fun! I know what you mean man, but I did state in my first post that the car will have a PREDICTED HP rating of 1000. Thats with max boost and with all the right components in place. I probably wont achieve that very soon, but I just needed to know about the T-56, and what my alternatives are (for road racing). I aksed my boss, and he pointed out 4 speed oval track trannies, and very expensive 6 speeds, I do not think this car will surpass the 40,000 mark. A lot of the stuff in the car will be either fabricated or bought used (depends on the parts). Oh, and where do you race? I really wanna see that car. Thats One piece of art you got there man. If it were mine, id be scared to race it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Good to see you back. No its not my car, he just joined the same track group that I'm in, I sure would love to have a machine like that though. I would not doubt he is in the 2500-2900 pound range, but without knowing how much fiberglass/CF he has on the car who knows, I'll ask when I get the chance! I see what you mean about the big #/sponsor thing, as for going sideways yes it can be fun, I love having horsepower but that is something I feel is a PROBLEM for me because it complicates things on the track without the experience and overall setup to handle it/put it to the ground. I also again find it more fun to be able to floor it and feel like I'm driving at the limit, instead of the gas pedal being so touchy feely, with AWD and the right driver though, I'm sure it will be a beast. How much sponsorship do you think you will really get? Are you a speed shop outfit? If not then I can say from looking at local racers, sponsorship is not only very light, but what is out there is based on winning, not really numbers. I think its the import guys who sometimes look at numbers all day, and most of the time they are only show or drag cars. It sounds like quite a project, and it would be sorta neat to see it be done, but not being a shop guy I always look at bang for the buck as opposed to getting that last 3% performance with 8x the cost, although in true racing, sometimes thats whats needed to be at the top. There are enough high HP cars out there like Supras and such though, that I think personally what would be amazingly impressive is torque everywhere, not just a narrow top end like many high HP Supras are stuck with (huge single turbos). If you could drive to and from the track, that would likewise be a statement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tt350 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Hey man, So far I have about 14K in sponsorships, mostly from local dealerships and such. They really like the idea of the "1000 HP Z CAR" with their name on it in the next car show/ road race. They dont really care about the racing part, but more of the street driving. Have I stated that this will be a daily driver? Thats one of my huge selling points. I have barely begun, however, so I still have a lot to do. I agree with ya on the bang for the buck ideology, cuz it would be real tough to beat this Z with the setup im goin to do. By the way, is that car in the pic a 240z with a camaro front clip, or is it actually a camaro. Man if that thing is a camaro, Id just go nuts. That is one good lookin camaro.... I mean Oh my LORD!>.. I live in the central valley, and I do work in a speed shop outfit (wanna keep it secret for now). So, if you race, Ill see ya at Thunder Hill? Im the guy with a Blue 91 VW Van. I actually drift with that thing. Its kinda sad, but fun, and very entertaining to watch. Man, I really need to finsih this Z. The BMW is sold, so Im stuck with the slowest vehicle ever to come off of an assembly line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 That is 100% Camaro, they are around 3200 pounds or less depending on options when stock, first gens have been one of my favorite all time cars for as long as I can remember! I had a 69 Firebird years ago, until I nuked the engine. As far as "uber 240Z" goes, http://www.fastassdatsun.com is probably my fave, he is a board member too. How do you think a 700HP turbo/300 shot nitrous would do with the sponsors? Its not quite the same, but you could at least get rid of some of that "useless" power for the track stuff, or you could always turn down the boost I suppose, which will help big time with heat too. What tracks are you looking to hit, or pretty much all of them? Who are you going to run with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 What about the drive train out of one of those GMC syclones. I think that where the v6 has been the v8 can go. Dont trust me on this one... look where I live. Im not shure if you can bolt a tranfer case onto any old transmission otherwise those nascar g/boxes are a good idea. With all that torque you dont need many gears. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Well I'm glad you are back... Do some research here... There are guys here who know all about "Adjustable Horsepower... Adjustable Boost" as you call it. Seriously, Go back and read my posts. You really need to rethink this thing before you spend a ton of money and make obligations that may or may not be unrealistic. As for the T56, I'm telling you, I have one I'm boxing up this morning to send to one of our members here... THEY ARE HUGE! You WILL NOT get one of these into a Z WITH a front wheel diff and tranfer case, No way, No HOW. Not diss'ing your idea, but Like ScottieGNZ and JohnC, I'd hate to see you embark on a journey and then abandon it two years down the road. Search this site. We have a LOT of knowledge collectively, and some VERY SERIOUS builders with VERY SERIOUS cars here... Most with engineering or racing back grounds... Mike Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tt350 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 To Mikellly: As I have said earlier, I am NOT using the t56 with the AWD, man. Why dont you lighten up a little huh? This project is going to be taken in steps, first with way low boost (not as big turbos), and RWD. Later on, when the car gains "momentum" I will have had collected enough money to do the AWD. To get to where I want this car to go, is going to take about 3 years. And mudge, I think your idea sounds real cool (nitrous), but my current setup is selling good (maybe cuz these guys dont know squat about engines, huh?). I will research the advantages that a nitrous setup has. Oh, and I will research the GMC Syclone drivetrain. And mudge, Im pretty much gonna try to hit as many tracks as much as possible. I will also be doin drift competitions (not sure how that would turn out!) occasionaly, and a whole lot of car shows. The big plus for the sponsors are the dealership appearances, where Ill show case it in the showroom. Neat Idea, huh? Oh, and I alos love those Camaros and Firebirds, but I think to get them down to the weight level of 3gs or less, its gonna take a lot of time and money. I dont know much about them, but can you fit a Big Block in the first gens. Just curious, I am not switchin. Well, Im off. Gotta go to the Junkyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Lighten Up? 'UM Not trying to be hard on you. Just trying to give you advice. Have fun. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 If you really want to stay with the Z concept, I would build a full tube frame chassis with the correct 'pick-up' points for the AWD system that you want to use, then just 'hang' Z bodywork (which most is available in fiberglass) on the frame. You will never be successfull with the stock unibody. Good luck!!! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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