Solid or Hydraulic lifters?

[utvolman99]

Well, I did a search on this subject and I didnt find a whole lot. I am trying to decide which direction I should go with my build up. My Iron eagle heads are set up for solid lifters whatever that means? I think they just have better springs? Im sure though that I would be fine if I wanted to use hydraulic. I just cant decide which to use.

This will be a street driven car who visits the track on the weekends. I dont mind the clicking of the solid lifters and I really dont mind the adjustments. I just am not sure how streetable the solid lifters are?

 

Any advice would be great!

[Guest Anonymous]

Utvolman,

Heads are generally not set up for a particular lifter, however the valvesprings might be stiffened to prevent what they call "valvespring bind" which is where a cam has alot of lift and the stock springs cannot compensate for the lift.

Anyway back to lifters.

I would have to say, mechanical lifters offer a difference in horsepower...actually more over hydraulic, however its a pain in the ass to be adjusting them periodically (depending on how hard you drive the car)

They are streetable, however you will get tired of adjusting them.

To make a long story short go here.

 

http://www.cranecams.com/mliftfaq.htm

 

In my opinion, there are many other aftermarket parts that can substitute the power your going to gain over hydraulic, and in reality, the mechanical lifter just allows the engine to rev higher without floating the valvetrain.

You can compensate the difference by going to a roller cam setup.

A roller cam setup allows a faster, higher rev similar to mechanical lifters, but without the adjustment.

I wouldn't mind running a roller setup, if I didn't already have a few cams i need to try out.

Also while your at it, get some roller rockers..it will go well with the roller cam and lifters...that is if you go with the roller setup.

[utvolman99]

Yeah, I know that a roller $etup would be best but I really dont have the cash! When I said the heads were set up for solid lifters I meant that they had springs rated for solid lifters. One thing that Im worried about is compressing my hydraulics with the stiffer spring! As far as the adjustment goes I was under the impression that you only had to do it every 12K miles or so. I am not really worred about reving much higher (at the most 6200) but I thougth that you get more advantages with a solid lifter than higher revving? Desk top dyno showes a 26hp and 20lb/ft of torque difference between solid and hydraulic with my engine setup at 6000RPM.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well I guess it is safe to say you already have the setup? Cause I know that aint cheap either.

As for adjusments, usually 12k is for normally driven street engines.

I am suspecting your going to make a beast out of your mouse? so break it down to at least 1/2...about 6k... maybe 8k, regardless you will know when you here them, which comes pretty fast when your driving fast.

I guess since your half way there, then go for the mechanical setup.

Or you can go the easy route and go hydraulic.

In a matter of opinion on my end, I would stick to at least Hydraulic...but remember..run the right cam to the engine specs.

Alot of people buy a 305 comp cams and the engine cannot even use it.

Good luck

[pparaska]

I have a different point of view.

 

If you use 7/16" studs, good rocker arms (like Comp Cams Pro Magnums) and maybe a stud girdle, solid lifter cams will not need valve adjustment all that often. They can go 5000 miles (depending on use) for a street car, maybe more, between adjustments.

 

Solid flat tappet cams also give broader torque curves over hyd. flat tappet cams.

 

If you use the right valvetrain parts, don't mind the clatter and the occasional adjustment, I'd say go for it.

[grumpyvette]

DITTO pparaska

if your not running EFI with a knock sensor, that the solid lifters will drive crazy, the solid lifters are great. If you don,t mind the slight ticking noise at idle(which I like but everyones got their own opinion of course) the solid lifters have the advantage of giveing you about 1000rpm more before you get into valve float territory and in most cases only need adjustment every 3-4 months , (if your not checking things at least that often you probably need a differant hobby anyway) that 1000 extra rpm can in some cases be a big help in your power curve too. most people that like fast cars ENJOY SETTING the LIFTERS lash settings anyway the only advantage I see to hydrolic lifters is little or no lash maintance adjustments after the first week or so.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hmmmmm....OK....So where are we again? lol.

The wierdest thing about all this is the mechanical setup cost a little more than a hydraulic, but less than a roller....so your right in the middle.

If someone gave you that setup, your in good shape, if you bought it...well use it.

if your planning to buy it...go recycle some cans and push for the roller setup.

pawn something, miss your cable bill, but do feed your dog!!

[Mike C]

Solid lifters can actually have faster ramp profiles than hydraulic. The lifter can be forced up at a higher rate without taking the chance of compressing the plunger. They also usually have more lift for a given duration. Solid lifters are also lighter in use since the body is not full of oil, another way of minimizing valvetrain weight. GM recommended 10k miles as adjustment intervals on the LT-1 and Z/28 302 motors. I have had no problems running Crane TR rockers on my mechanical roller. I usually check the valves every couple of thousand miles, but they seldom need to be adjusted.

[pparaska]

And faster ramps mean less difference between seat duration and 0.050" duration. What that means is more area under the curve (more fuel/air per timing event). And that means with the same seat timing you get more power. Seat timing, in particular Intake Valve Closing point, dictates dynamic compression ratio, and therefore low speed response and torque.

 

There's a rule of thumb that a solid flat tappet cam needs 8-10 more degrees of 0.050" duration to make it comparable to a hydraulic flat tappet. And the faster ramps are the reason.

 

But all this is only true if the solid cam really does have faster ramps. The point is that they can have faster ramps and a cam grinder can take that opportunity to make a cam with less difference between seat and 0.050" duration differences with a solid flat than a hydraulic. And as was pointed out, this allows more lift as well.

 

Of course, spring pressures must go up to compensate, as well as more room before they coil bind. That's probably what the head maker meant but "solid lifter ready".

 

I LOVE the sound of a bit of clattering in a solid cam. But if I move to a knock sensor system some day, I'll have to move up to a hydraulic roller - with the new lighter lifters and a rev kit possibly. Talk about a pile of money.

[Guest Anonymous]

Adjustment here...adjustment there....I am just too lazy.

I'll just stick to my hydraulic.

My uncle once said "ya can't win them all, but you can sure try"

[pparaska]

teamcruz, if we all had the same opinions, it'd be awful boring - we'd all be driving the same car with all the same mods for one!

[Guest Thurem]

PP

teamcruz, if we all had the same opinions, it'd be awful boring - we'd all be driving the same car with all the same mods for one!

What, sort of like the Ricers?

Thure

[utvolman99]

thanks for all the help guys. Looks like I will be going with a solid lifter. I am going to look at the xtreme energy grinds. Ill let everyone know how it goes!

[Brad-ManQ45]

60's Hemis had solid lifter, in '70 they put hydraulic lifters in 'em and a lot of the street racers were running more consistently - seems that even racers can be lazy...

[Mike C]

I think the solid lifter cams need more duration to be compareable to the hydraulic in terms of OVERALL duration is to account for lash. Beacuse of the lash factor, the lifter moves further on the ramp before valve actuation happens .050 is .050 no matter what the cam. Using this as an example, a mechanical cam with 230 deg at .050 will idle much smoother and start pulling lower than a hydraulic with 230 @ .050, but make nearly equal power up high. And adding 10 degrees to the advertised duration the mechanical will idle about the same as the hydraulic but will stomp it in the midrange and top end.