Guest Anonymous Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Hey there, I can buy a '76 260Z with quite a bit of rust on it. Since I can quite easily get hold of CA18DET engines I would like to swap in one of these. Now I would need to know what kind of chassis strengthening needs to be done prior to fitting the engine. The car will be completely cleaned of rust and all the welds will be strengthened, but I'd need to know if anything additional is necessary. Also any idea where I can find motor mounts + transmission support to fit the CA18DET with transmission in the 260? Any help is more than welcome. greetinx dVs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 First, I will echo what many of us will say again and again. Don't even consider starting any project with a Z with a lot of rust. You will spend so much time and money getting rid of the rust, it won't be worth your time. You can pick up a 240z/260z/280z with little to no rust for less than $1000. The 240's are getting harder to find for that price, but I am talking no motor/tranny. Second, there are no ready made mounts for the CA18 - it would all be custom. That is the reality of any of the RB/CA/SR swaps. There is a set of mounts that can kinda make a RB setup work in the engine, but they are a compromise. Besides, some of us are selling mounts that work better than that, for the same or lower price. And really, you are probably better going with the SR20 and giving up maybe 1000 revs on the top end max,(7500/8000 vs 8500/9000). The SR has a bigger aftermarket, the motor/tranny is just about the same for a S-13 setup, and you aren't giving up displacement. But again, bottom line, forget the rust bucket and move on to a better platform. You can easily spend $2k and months of time fixing rust. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alfman240z Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 im still new to the post but what i have been reading bob-h is very opionated but most of time hes got a good point and i woul d have to agree with him on this one. i picked up a 71 240 with minimal rust and its still giving me a headache. i would recomend you look around somemore theres always a good deal poping up here and there dont jump on the fisrt car you see youll regret it it has happen to me one tomany times, happy searching good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I spent many more hours and many more dollars fixing the rust on my Z than I did doing the conversion. Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAD D Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 When you start trying to fix the Z you will find a lot more rust too. It is a pain to fix or it is big $$ to get some one to do it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David K Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 And really' date=' you are probably better going with the SR20 and giving up maybe 1000 revs on the top end max,(7500/8000 vs 8500/9000). The SR has a bigger aftermarket, the motor/tranny is just about the same for a S-13 setup, and you aren't giving up displacement. [/quote'] Bob, it doesnt matter if the sr has a bigger aftermarket, this is a single project and the guy does not need a huge aftermarket. The sr20de is a bulletproof engine, but the ca18de takes more boost because of its iron block. Food for thought. The aftermarket is there for the ca18de, enough to get anything you want, and more. DK, former SE-R driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 David, I'm not sure I understand your logic. It does matter the aftermarket support for this project. He clearly is on a budget of some kind,(why else would he consider a badly rusted 260z) and aftermarket/upgrade parts are not as common on the CA motors and tend to be more expensive. Yes, you can get "anything", but at what cost? I ought to know working on a CA18det motored 240sx,(s-13). Realize I am not talking about the "him selling his car" aftermarket, but the aftermarket availability of parts and upgrades of which the SR has a wider base of available parts/upgrades, which are usually cheaper to a small extent. And to say the CA18deT takes more boost because of the iron block is misleading and I'm not sure accurate. The iron block of the CA should allow it to withstand more power, but overall prep at the kind power levels have a much bigger impacts than the block design. Again, for that to become a valid difference, we are talking hig levels of boost, of which I doubt he is looking to do initially. Either way, that is assuming a lot because that was not outlined by him. And my comment on the motor/tranny should have said that the price is very similar to the CA18 setup from an importer,(it wasn't clear initially). So for about the same outlay in cost, you get a motor with .2L more displacement, more of them here in the US,(assuming he is in the US), and a larger/cheaper selection of aftermarket upgrades if they so choose to go down that route. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Thanks already for these first replies. Just to give you guys some more info as to the what's and how's of the project. I am living in Europe (Belgium actually) and over here we do not have a very large reserve of older Z cars. They are actually quite rare and do tend to fetch a hefty premium even with rust on 'em. The good thing though is that rust tends to be quite superficial as we don't have strong winters with lots of salt on the road, nor do most of us live next to the sea with lot's af salt in the air (it ain't sunny California over here). While a car with some rust is not the ideal start for this project, I luckily know someone who's quite crafty (and thank god reasonably priced) at restoring classic cars. As to the CA18DET vs SR20DET debate, well the CA18DET is quite easy to get hold of here, the SR20DET a little bit harder and hence more expensive. Performance wise (after upgrading) there isn't such a big difference between the two. The Z is a small car and to my opinion should not be crammed with high power engines. For myself the limit will be somewhere between 250 and 300bhp. This is achievable with stock internals for both engines. For both the level of experience of some UK based outfits is equally high, parts availability same, etc. What I will go for in the end will mostly be decided on what I can find and at what price. However, part of my initial question remains. Will I need to strengthen the chassis in order to cope with up to 300bhp and track use (forgot to mention that last bit so far I think)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 we didnt know that you were in Belgium and z's were rare over there, i personally like the ca18det over the sr20det, its a better built engine, internally, its a rb engine with the front two cylinders hacked off, while the sr20det, even if it is all alloy, is weaker internally. you will not have to strengthen the chassis for 300hp out of a four cylinder since it wont have a crazy amount of low end torque, but since you said rust, i would check the frame rails to see how intact they are, and if you can weld, i would re tack weld the frame rails to the floor, also the part of the frame where the tc rod meets the frame, and parts of the rear suspension, although that is the beefiest part of the car. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David K Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Hey deevious, Check out these sites http://www.turbophile.com http://datnet.org/new/flyby/ http://www.ca18det.net http://www.bd4s.com.au/ca18det_performance_modification.htm http://www.dpmotorsport.com/cars/j25.htm http://www.pandablue.com/nissansilvia/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 300 hp and 200+ lb ft of torque may not be over stressing TOO much (for drag starts), but throw some stiff springs and struts, sway bars, sticky tires on it and throw it hard around a road course, and you will find the weaknesses. That kind of beating on the Z chassis is probably harder on it. Any of the road racers here, please tell me if I'm nuts or not on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Belgium? Well, it is still in your best interest to find the least rusty car you can, even if it is twice the price. If it is only in the floors and frame rails, it is fairly easy to deal with. If it is in the rocker panels, rear quarter panels, or other places, it is much harder to fix. Keep that in mind. Check out Pete's site,(pparaska), and look at the frame rail design he has. That is an excellent addition to a track driven Z. Second, for a track car with approx. 300 hp, why not the 2.8L turbo motor? It is much eaiser, only about 50lbs more than the CA18 setup by most accounts, and doesn't require a bunch of custom work? For your goals, I suggest the L6 turbo motor from the 280zx, 1981-1983 models. 300 hp is easy and proven in the L6 turbo. The CA18DET will be more stressed to produce that power,(read that to mean aftermarket parts and more money). Yes, the CA18 can produce that kinda power, but the 2.8L will produce it with less work,(and less money). Food for thought, good luck either way. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Yup Belgium, can't help it, it's my parents' fault Already had a look at Pete's site couple of months back. Actually, I'd already included some pictures of his car in my screensaver. I'm going to have a close inspection of the car tonight and hope the rust is acceptable. The asking price is about 1500$. this may sound as a lot, but the 'rustfree' (they weren't really rustfree actually) had an asking price of up to 6 times that amount! I believe Pete's site will be very helpful in getting the car in good condition again. According to the owner there's no rust on the frame rails, nor on the rocker panels (tbc). As to the engine choice (again) I had considered the L28, but again availability is a problem. But aren't you overestimating the cost of getting the CA18 to between 250 and 300 bhp. I know several people running this kind of output in S13's and what they changed is the following - second hand intercooler from either a Saab or Fiat Ducato (it's a van) : ca 500$ - second hand T28 turbo reconditioned : 600$ - Mongoose exhaust : 500$ - Performance air intake : 200$ - ECU remapping : 200$ So total cost is about 2000$ What would it cost to get an L28 to the same level? And how easy is it to hook it up in the 260Z? Is this a straight swap? If so, I'll have to look into this more closely as a sound alternative. Thanks for the good advice guys. greetinx dVs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Sorry, forgot to log in. the above is mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Already found quite a lot of info on the L28 swap in the mean time. I will need to check the availability of the engine in Europe and knowledge of tuning the engine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 saw the car. Rusted chassis beam, big rust holes, mechanic didn't like it too much. The search goes on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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