Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Hey everyone, I have been seeing all of the custom welded mods/repairs here and there on everyones' cars and it's got me thinking of doing the same. Any advice on a small welding setup that I might consider? I know the local Harbour Freight has some tig(?) welders but havent checked them out that much. Any advice would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I bought a Millermatic 175 (240V) model MIG welder then took classes at a nearby Tech scool to learn how to weld. Wanted to make sure that I wasn't limited in what I would be able to weld (within reason- 240V gives a litter more flexibilit on chassis enhancements/trailors), and put a circuit in the garage/basement for air compressor and welder (won't be using both at the same time). I am about to start on the rotisserie so that I can do the floor pans and subchassis connectors. I LIKE welding. Won't use flux core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 If you are thinking of going with a TIG, you should do a BUNCH of research. What you buy is really dependent on what you want to do. The cheaper models will stick metal together, but come with less features that make welding easier. For instance: For welding aluminum you want AC (preferably square wave) with high frequency. The AC alternately cleans the oxides off of the base metal and penetrates the base metal. The high frequency stabilizes the arc as the polarity switches and the voltage crosses through zero. Without HF, you can have trouble keeping and controlling the arc. For welding steel you want DC with high frequency start. High frequency here keeps you from having to touch the tungsten electrode to the base metal and risk contamination on starting the weld. You also want to make sure that the machine offers low enough amperage settings for welding thin material. Most low cost machines have limited amperage range, no high frequency, and no square wave AC. IMHO, the best bang for the buck out there right now is the Miller Syncrowave 180SD. I just bought one and am extremely pleased with it. Check the Miller web page… Other things to consider include electrical service. I had to run a 60 amp sub-panel in my garage. This ended up involving changing out my entire electrical service which added ~$700 to the cost of setting up the welder. Also, TIG supplies are not real cheap. They won't break the bank, but you will go through a bunch learning. You will also need a good helmet. IMO, it is worth buying a high quality auto darkening one, especially if you are learning. You will also need a small bench grinder for sharpening electrodes. The HP book on welding is good as a start, but it is a little out dated in some areas. The book that came with my Miller has better info, but is harder to follow... FWIW, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 It you're just starting out, a 110v MIG welder should be able to handle all the steel welding you'll want to do on your car. Both Miller and Lincoln make good machines for about $500. You'll also need to add a small Argon tank, welding helmet, gloves, etc. so you'll probably spend about $750 total to get a complete outfit. Your workspace is also very important. Figure out how much room you have in the garage and then search out a very sturdy, unpainted steel table. You can build a cheap one by buying industrial shelving uprights and cross beams and then having a steel plate cut to fit. A 1/8" thick plate should work fine for home use. Then, go to a metal yard and buy scrap steel of various thicknesses (up to 1/4"), sheet metal, tube, etc. and spend a lot of time practicing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Want aZ Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Im taking an intro to TIG welding, which starts in 2 weeks, the book that they recommend for the course is Welding Principles and Applications, ISBN # 0827382405, its a little pricy but not too bad, and they say it covers, MIG, TIG, and Oxy/Acetelyne. Havent bought it yet, but am really looking forward to this course. Though its not required for my degree, the practical applications will be PRICELESS!!! Damon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 well, I just went and looked at that miller 180 tig... lovely machine.... and $1500 to boot. !!! So I am going to hit ebay and see what I find. any recommendations on machines that will be a little closer to a budget of $500 or so? I think I want to go TIG, from what the guys at B&R said. I figure a cheaper machine will do most of what the average Z person needs, and I think I can work a deal to use someone elses equipment once I have some experience under my belt. tannji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 You can get a cheaper TIG if you go with a straight DC machine. They have some pretty small ones. Check state auctions. Here in Louisiana, I know a guy who got a $3K machine for $300. Remember for TIG, just the torch can run over $100. Gas bottle ran me ~$160. What do you want to weld? Material, thickness, joint type? This will determine what type of welder you should get. Unfortunaltly $500 is not much to spend on high quality / versatile equipment Maybe you can find something used. There are some good deals out there, but most people know what this stuff goes for new and price accordingly. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 yeah, used is what I was thinking about. I am going to start keeping an eye on ebay and local auctions and ads... tannji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 The Lincoln Square Wave TIG 175 sells for about $1,400 new and I've seen them for $800 used. http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=2505 I've been using the Lincoln Invertec 205T every day for a year and I'm very, very happy with its performance on steel, aluminum, stainless, copper, and Ti. It will run on 110 or 220v. http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=2513 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Ive been using a cheap "chicago electric" that i bought from harbor frieght. its a small 110V mig thats does flux core or gas welding. its got some adjustment, but not much. it can also be a real PITA to try the thin stuff. I would say for the 180$ I paid for it...its well worth it. although im looking for a nice cheap TIG welder so that I can start welding alum. and stainless. Ive been looking at a Tig from HTP. called the invertig. http://www.usaweld.com/product_page/tig_welder/tig100.html its about 600$ and weighs 12 pounds! it seems to be a nice budget TIG machine. but, Ive never used one so I cannot realy comment on its reliablilty or weld quality. for now im just going to stick with my little MIG. considering that I dont even know what country Im going to be living in in two years, the last thing I want to do is buy some big welder that I have to drag around with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 IMHO,,I know this is sacreligious, BUT, unless you really want to spend a lot of money and have what it takes to weld everything appropriately, you might consider using a professional welder when needed. I looked into welding a year ago and figured out that for my limited needs, us a pro. There are so many welding types that are appropriate for different uses, you never really have what you need ( unless you must have it all). Supplies are expensive and workmanship is elevated through practice. Here is what I took away from my research: MIG- general welds uses internal wire ( real nice and easy for most projects Flux core wire really does not work too well. Gas tanks expensive, and so is the gas. Most welders sign up for tank trades, or wont do business with hobbyists. Tig- for Aluminum and SS. Takes practice to do well. Usually for body work on steel panels connection. Miller web page - has free education and lots of general information. Stick welders hard to use and makes for dangerous fumes same as ACTY torches Spot welders are single use primarily for sheet metal connection. With all that said, GO FOR IT! Ferd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I too am using a HF Chicago Electric unit, but runs on 230 volts. I have had no problems (except self-induced). I have not used shielding gas. I agree that thin metal is challenging, but very do-able. I paid ~$300 for mine.....one of the best $300 I ever spent. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 A TIG machine is definitely nice, but as I think you are finding out a TIG is at the high end of things for a home hobbiest just starting out. Kind of like saying I want to buy my first car and I have heard Roll Royces are better than most others. A good MIG machine will probably do 95% of the things you will ever want to do. It will weld stainless easily and many will weld aluminum. They are much easier to learn on. Buy a MIG welder and if after years of use you are finding you can't get the titanium welds just right or are spending more than a dozen hours a week welding, then look into upgrading to a TIG. Besides, if you are welding at such a high level that you really need a TIG, then chances are you will still want/need a MIG also. Make sure you get a MIG with sheilding gas. Every welding supply shop I have seen will be glad to sell you a tank. If not, Harbor Frieght sells them for about $100. You will actually save money with sheilding gas because you no longer have to buy the more expensive flux core wire. If you are really resourceful, go to a vending machine company and buy a used CO2 cylinder to $20 or less. That's what my brother did. Flux core wire works well outdoors in the wind, but the smoke will flat kill you inside your shop. Shielding gas gives cleaner welds and less splatter. I would (and did) buy an oxy-acetelyne torch before I would upgrade to TIG. The torch has a million uses on a car, and actually does a better job of welding aluminum sheet than an electric. Check out Monster Garage or this site to see how http://www.metalshapers.org/ As for practice, hit the local scrap metal yard and start making your own bench. Scrap 2 1/2 inch fire sprinkler pipe makes a hell of a bench. Topping it with plate steel would be best, but if you are cheap like me (and your shop doubles as a wood shop) top it with plywood and buy some cement backer board at Home Depot. Makes a nice fire resistant welding booth that can be put away when not needed. While you are at it, buy a couple of good sized dry chemical fire extinguishers and mount one near every entrance to your shop. Keeping a bucket of water and bucket of sand in the shop is extremely useful. And don't forget a nice welding helmet (most novices will appreciate the more expensive auto darkening ones) and get a set of insulated gloves that cover the majority of your forearms. A 4 1/2 inch grinder with a wire brush attachment will prove more immediately useful than a TIG. There is more, but gives you an idea of what you need to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 woah, lots of replies I guess I might have had an idea that might not be for me. First, most of the things I would want to be welding may be too diverse to just get an inexpensive welder. I was looking to spend maybe 600-750 tops but it looks like that wont get me something that would suit. (Looking for something I could range from body repair to welding nuts for custom mounts for various things to welding a roll cage and to making subframe connectors). Of course, the major not-for-me is that I dont even have a garage right now. Thanks for all of the info tho, I might still look into getting a small mig welder as it appears that I can get one that would run on 110 and would probably suit some of the smaller jobs that I want to do. You cant weld a roll cage with a mig welder, can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 You cant weld a roll cage with a mig welder, can you? Yes, you can. Probably the perfect welder to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Sure you can! Joe Gibbs Racing only uses Lincolns SP135 110v welders to build their NASCAR WC chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Ok, how about one of these jobbies? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=32197 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=9011 Too cheap? Ok for getting started? BTW, can you teach yourself mig welding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Both too cheap. Why spend that money for a 'learning' unit, only to spend more money again later for a 'production' unit. Then you will have to reteach yourself anyway because not all welders actthe same way, they all have their little 'quirks'. Always use this motto: Spend as much as you can possibly afford on tools. It's a capital expenditure and will pay for itself many many times over the years. If you buy junk, it will cost more in both $$$ and agravation. Just ask Owen. He, and his 10 lb sledge and Craftsman welder are well know around here. If you can't afford a decent one, and don't plan to do much welding, then rent one. If you dom plan to do a lot of welding, then drop the $$$ on a good unit. Yes, you can teach yourself. Just have someone who can weld well give you some pointers, or get a book. Harbor Freght has a nice one. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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