Somebody school me... how to launch a turbo and be fast??

[Guest bastaad525]

On street tires, running a 3.54 and '82 5 speed. Once this motor hits boost it really pulls, but trying to take off from a lite... the thing is a joke. I tried doing a burnout takeoff, revved to 3000rpm, dumped the clutch... the tires barely gave more than a chirp (okay they spun but it was a very short spin), before the engine settled back down to like 1500rpm and pulled ever so slowly before hitting 3k, and resulting in 3 hand timed, very slow, 0-60mph times of 8.5 seconds Even after I bumped the timing up almost where it's supposed to be, and noticing a good improvement in the stumble I talked about in my other thread, this is still the best I could manage.

 

Today I tried just messing around with it and doing slip launches. I had one that felt really good, revved up to 3k again and slipped it out, this built boost pretty quick, and the car felt like it took off a lot faster... then I felt what I'm 99% sure was clutch slip... did I overheat it from slipping it like that??? It's an ACT so for it to start slipping really surprised the heck outta me... but maybe I'm wrong and it was just more of the hesitation that cant seem to make up it's mind if it's gone or not!

 

Should I try revving even higher and doing a clutch dump? A friend of mine who used to have a turbo eclipse said he'd rev to like 5k and dump it. I'm afraid it may put too much shock on the u joints or diff or any number of parts and cause stuff to start breaking, which I definately dont want....

 

All I know is that given the performance of the stock ZXT that this motor came out of, and the 600lbs less my car weighs, I should definately be able to get a much faster 0-60... help me out guys

[SleeperZ]

Either slip the clutch, maintaining your RPMs, or dump the clutch. By bogging it, you lose your boost and hit the dreaded "turbo lag" everyone professes to hate. Keep up the RPMs, that's how to get a fast time with the turbo motor. For me, it's either bog it, or boil it (the tires). And now, the clutch is slipping on me. Expect to wear out clutches and tires.

[Guest bastaad525]

ugh... man this ACT has lasted very well though... 35,000 hard driven miles on my N/A motor, and when the mechanic pulled it off during the motor swap... man he showed it to me and it looked brand f'ing new!!! The flywheel also looked perfect... there was just a tiny tiny bit of wear in on the pressure plate surface... tires I buy cheap so I dont care if they go fast, though I will say, they too put up with quite a few miles with my N/A motor doing lots and lots of burnouts, and still plenty of tread on them. They also have like no grip heheh so I guess they are a pretty hard rubber. So if I want to just dump it and avoid burning up the clutch, what RPM should I be dumping at? This is at stock boost on the stock T3. 3000 was clearly not high enough...

 

I'm gonna try some more slip launches tommorow, it definately seemed to help... one problem is slipping the clutch takes a lot of concentration for me... makes it hard to start the stopwatch when I'm trying to time myself! ;P

[yo2001]

I was getting full boost before 3000rpm with T3, just more tuning and you shouldn't have no lag problem.

[scottyMIz]

I slip mine when i race at the track but like sleeper says it's either spinning or bogging i don't bog much but it does happen.I launch mine at about 4 to 5k and slip it til i get moving and then just dump it the rest of the way to limit the spining.What size tires you run on your z?

[Guest bastaad525]

Yo - it does come on a bit sooner than 3k... my tach and boost gauge are spaced pretty far apart so I never can really see the exact rpm that the boost hits 7psi at. It's probably actually much closer to 2500, because I know that that's about the lowest rpm I can cruise at on the street, floor it, and the car will move instead of bog.

 

My tires are crap, 190-70-14's mounted on ZX rims. $25 tires. If I were down at the track every so often, I'd probably get better ones. But they do seem to last forever even thru lots of burnouts, and I dont worry if something happens to them.

 

So slipping and high rpm launches are the way to go.... gonna go for a spin right now

[scottyMIz]

i run 215-50-16's on my z and it's not even close to enuf tire.My clutch doesn't slip at all it'll stall the car before it'll slip so that's why i slip it.I suggest more tire at least in the back a 190 is skinny.Maybe just get a set of used tires and wheels for the back for the track.Good luck anyway

[Guest bastaad525]

remember though... my problem right now isn't grip, it's bogging. I'm having a hard time breaking the tires free to spin them and build up some boost, instead of bogging off the line. So more stick is just gonna make that worse!

 

 

By the way... I know I shouldn't have... but I uh.... I installed the boost controller... and... well I couldn't resist....

 

I upped the boost a bit to 9psi. Man what a difference... NOW I can see grip being a problem.. when the boost comes on it breaks them free, but only for a second before they grab again. The boost will spike to 10 then settle down to about 8.5-9psi... I should be okay there right? My timing is a bit retarded, at 16* BTDC at idle... as I couldn't get it to advance any more than that!! Plugs are still showing okay, and I didn't hear any pinging, though I dont stay on it for more than a couple seconds. I only did some 1st and 2nd gear pulls so I didn't get a chance to stay in it very long. One problem is my exhaust makes a very rattly sound... hard to explain... remember it's just a glasspack, no muffler... so I have to be extra careful because it might mask any pinging sound. Man what a rush....

[Lockjaw]

I dump about 3500 and find I run my best times by NOT slipping the clutch

[scottyMIz]

i think at the next track date i'll try a launch like you do lockjaw.you should be fine with 9psi of boost with no ic mine didn't have any probs when i firtst turned mine up.just keep an ear out for it.

[mobythevan]

By the way... I know I shouldn't have... but I uh.... I installed the boost controller... and... well I couldn't resist....

 

heh heh.......

 

 

I haven't practiced my launches yet because I still had the 4spd and R180. But it looks like this weekend the BW T-5 and R200 will be in, so I'll have to work on that a bit before I head down to the track, since I have the luxury of backroads...

[SleeperZ]

By the way... I know I shouldn't have... but I uh.... I installed the boost controller... and... well I couldn't resist....

 

heh heh.......

 

 

I haven't practiced my launches yet because I still had the 4spd and R180. But it looks like this weekend the BW T-5 and R200 will be in, so I'll have to work on that a bit before I head down to the track, since I have the luxury of backroads...

 

Let me know when you are going. I will see if I can meet you - I'm quite anxious to see your car. I will be at Bandimere on the 5th of September and Second Creek on the 6th.

[mobythevan]

Sounds good, I'll see where I end up going, but I may go to Pueblo Motorsports Park first. Its a little closer for me.

[fl327]

I use a method similar to Lockjaw,when I run the DRs

I rev it up to 3500-800 and rev it up between those two points to make a pound of two of boost at the line.

I drop the clutch hard at the second to last light, and hit full boost right out the hole, I do spin the tires once or twice, but so far it has led to my best 60 time, 1.88 and a .526 reaction time.

I run a 30 year old stock suspension, stock front sway bar and no rear sway bar, and use the squat to my advantage-this is why I drop clutch on second to last light-car does this right when I dump it:

Squat

Bite

Chirt

Boost

If I were to leave any later I would get very bad RT

If I leave sooner I Redlight

With street tires, I do the same thing, but I have to slip the clutch and end up with a good amount of spin, and worse 60 and RT times, best doing this on street tires was 2.221 on the 60 and .672 RT, both of which is still good enough to destroy the car in the next lane 8 out of 10 times, 2 other times I got dusted by a AWDT Eclipse/Talon, and a very boosted FC3ds, but I still eliminated the FC in the bracket challenge.

[Guest bastaad525]

cut the hoses a bit shorter to and from the boost controller, cut down on the spiking some. I've got it down so that I can acurately get it to settle at 9psi, and not spike above 10. I tried some more slip launches today but I can't seem to get it right like I did the other night. And now I'm having more problems... namely an idle that adjusts itself and an engine unwilling to rev past 4500rpm

 

I stared a new thread here for anyone who wants to read the details and help me to yet again diagnose some crappy problem

 

http://hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24652

 

You know what really pisses me off? the mechanic that did the swap is now pretty much avoiding me... like... wtf???? So now I'm stuck with a car that's still isn't driving right... and he wont even get back to me to arrange a time to try to figure out the rest of the problem and FINISH HIS WORK!!! I've never been good with ZX EFI so now I feel like I"m up the creek w/o a paddle and gonna be stuck with a shitty running Z for who knows how long

 

Only alternative I can think of now is to save up more $$$ and take it this one all Z place I know but they charge a FORTUNE, but they're the only one I know of that just about everyone around here with a Z seems to know and recommend. Until then I'll keep trying to learn and mess with it myself, but some of these problems seem really big and not like they'd be something easy to diagnose... this is so f***ed....

[SleeperZ]

There are a lot of people here who can probably identify with the mechanic problem, that is, the problem of having someone else do the work for you. What I have found is, no matter how good or dedicated your mechanic is, the work will never measure up to your expectations.

 

This leaves you with a choice. Either lower your expectations of the car, or learn to do it yourself. I, for one, have not taken my car to a mechanic for 3 years, and my Z hasn't been to one, including fast lube places, for going on 9 years. You have to deal with the frustration of having to learn how to fix these things, but the rewards are worth it - you can meet your own expectations.

 

Good luck, and don't hold your breath on getting the mechanic to "make it right."

[Jersey]

525 - send your Z to NJ and i'll have it right in a week! I'm surprised with all the 240ZT's out there in CA that there's not one person around with GOOD knowledge of the swap and could lend you a hand. NJ is a different story. I know of about 2 people total here that have done it. Wish i could stretch a helping hand acroos this damn internet to help. Launching...i do the same as 327 does...

I rev it up to 3500-800 and rev it up between those two points to make a pound of two of boost at the line

and when i see the third yellow just light up, i start releasing the clutch with the R's at around 35-3800. You just have to get the feel for it and it might be tough without good tires. Release the clutch as much as possible just on the edge of spinning...start spinning, in with the clutch a little, grabbing good...release a little more...back and forth to gain maximum traction as possible with your current setup. This will also create as much load on your motor throughout the gear which helps build boost. This may not be the right way, but it works for me. At the track, 1-2 shift and all after, the clutch is just snapped out. On the road, i have to feather just a little bit on the 1-2 shift and then snap it out 2-3 and 3-4. Good sticky tires help a lot. They allow you to release the clutch more without slipping and in turn put more load on the motor creating more boost early. That's what i think anyway For a test the other night, i slapped a pair of 205/70/14's on the rear (about 25" tall compared to my 22 1/2" 215/50/15's) and MAN, what a difference. I love it and would love it even more if i could get better traction. They were skinner BFG's and couldn't hold the pavement AT ALL compared to my Dunlops. I only did a couple of quick launches and they were slower because i had to REALLY slip the clutch but, with the larger diameter tire, i think is really going to help me at the track. We'll see next week if all goes well. So, i feel it really depends on YOUR specific setup on how to launch YOUR Z right. AND BTW - for those of you possibly going to flame me...i do tests on the road like this VERY LATE at night (1-2am) on an open freeway with nobody in site. I wouldn't put my wife and 2 children in danger like that, what gives me the right to put someone else's family in harms way. I understand.

[fl327]

Sleeper is completely right, unless you do it yourself, it wont be the way you want it. A real shop probably wouldnt touch it, because it is not oem work, and some ase mechanics cannot do work like this. I would like to hope that more mechanics who are in it as a career were into high performance, but the truth is, A lot of Ase guys only do OEM repair, and limit themselves to it. The only thing I would do is rear end fluid at a lube place, and I will dang near lay down under my car from the side to make dang sure that I get it done, I even spray paint the plug to make sure they do it.

Jersey, I dont think its right to say what you just did about Californians.

I dont think you meant to generalize us Californians in that manner, but it didnt sound right to me as being neither fair nor true. Now if you can just head that comment to Southern Californian turbo zcar owners I could undersand (im joking here, hold the flames please).

Im in NORTHERN California. I try to trouble shoot as good I can, but I really can only generalize since I cant physically see, touch, or hear the problems described. Again, Im not upset or anything, but I dont think its right to generalize us Californians like it sounds like you just did.

[Jersey]

327...i didn't mean it at all in the way it seems you took it. Sorry, i must have worded it incorrectly. What i meant was....i'm sure there's got to be a bunch of guys/gals out there in CA that know a bunch about this swap and have good experience because that's all i hear about over here in NJ..."you should see all the Z's in CA and what they do to them!" It was kind of a sarcastic statement when i said that i was surprised that there wasn't anyone in CA to help him out...because that's kind of the way out here in NJ, very limited. I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way...it was not intended like that. Expression over the internet sometimes gets confused. I really didn't mean to offend you, or anyone from CA for that matter, if i did 327. I really don't know the difference between northern/southern CA and would never generalize anyone, from anywhere. I think us Z owners are our own breed anyway I've got to get out there one year and check out your "Golden State"

[Jersey]

And i just read your post again...That's all any of us can do through the computer...troubleshoot by generalization. Understood. I meant for someone with good knowledge from CA to physically put thier hands on his car and help him out. I didn't mean that the people from CA on this board couldn't help him out over the internet...i meant, actually get thier hands dirty under his hood. UG. Can you see i'm real sensitive about this??? I never like to offend ANYONE and i always think before i speak/type/act, and i seem to have offended you. Anyway, sorry. Not meant.