Rough Estimate on Bare Bones Z8?

[Guest Mateo]

Hello my name is Matt and Im new here,

 

Ive just come into driving age, oh sweet 16, and looking for a car. Right now I drive a beat up 177,000mi 3.7L V6 Dodge Durango from an old man that I got for $500 made by mowing yards lol. It gets me places, but its not the prettiest or quickest thing on 4 wheels .

 

Looking around for a car people gave me suggestions. Friends say, "Go with the import stuff. A Honda Civic Coupe with 18's, Sparco seats, and all that rice. Pimp and cheap". But Im different(or more like sane), I actually want to put something together with my bare hands and sweat, bring something back to its former glory while still making a car that suprises everyone and makes them do that famous double take.

 

So I decided: "Hey why not build an American Muscle car?!". This is the South, plenty of donor cars and bodies out there. When it all comes down to it after parts, paint, etc it costs less than a used import anyways and its different, unique...or not. Looking at the high school parking lot there are quite an amount of late 60s Camaros, Mustangs, Chevelles. Well of course its Texas.

 

On my quest of finding something unique I run upon the Nissan Z cars of the 70s. I instantly fell in love with the cabin back, 2 seater, low to the ground, body lines of the 72' 240z, but it was lacking something that I desired, more displacement. Driving a truck that only goes to 80mph isn't that enjoyable for cruising than with say a 350+HP V8 growling that sound that brings a tear to the eyes of enthusiasts. The I6 just didn't seem that appealing. Figuring I should just continue on my search I read some more and found out that you could swap in a SBC. Thats it. Thats what I want, plus I think it fits my case. Reading around I see that the Z8 gets about 18-20mpg, not that much difference from what Im driving around, it looks great which is a plus with the ladies , and I think it can be cheap.

 

My parents decided that this would be my graduation gift and will give me a spending budget that cannot exceed say $3-5000 which I am very thankful for. I don't have any past experiences with building cars but I have the urge to learn because I think any person at this age should learn about cars because it provides invaluable lessons later on in the future. A friend of the family has all the basic equipment, air tools, engine stand, etc so got the tools. Ill be doing it in my garage so I got a place to do it that is dry. Im talking with the local body shop for a job doing small stuff in return they will teach me how to paint, do body repair, etc(then Ill start doing the work and actually getting sorta paid for it) since the owner goes through people because they move on so quickly, so got the paint and body for the car. Plus Im getting a job at a local restaruant as a bus boy to get some more money for the car parts. I won't be going in alone, my dad and his friends will guide me through it but it will be my responsibilty to do the work.

 

So far Ive got from reading around is that to do this swap I need to go to jagsthatrun.com and get the manual if I go through with this. Which all this depends on how much this will cost. So after all this here is the big question: How much will a decent looking 240z V8 cost once everything is done? How much are parts? How much time will it take?

 

 

Much Thanks

Matt

[DavyZ]

http://www.hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27138

 

Just poke around the forum and use the 'search' function. There is nothing but info here--that's why the forum was created! Most of your questions will have been answered, so take your time and download the info you need. Visit members sites and buy the JTR book.

 

Welcome to the board!

 

Davy

[Guest Mateo]

Thanks, didn't notice the search button

[Tim240z]

Little out of your budget range, but really worth a consideration!!

 

http://www.hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27844&highlight=

 

Tim

[80LS1T]

I second what Tim said! For $6900 that is a hell of deal! I wish it was for sale a year ago right before I started my conversion, I could have saved a ton of $$$!

 

Of course if you really want to build one yourself it can be done for under $5000 but your going to have spend your money wisely. No fancy rims till your conversion is done, no big stereo systems, or other non swap items. Most guys spend close to $10,000 on a nice swap but most of us go "over board" on everything (like me ...I have spend right around $15K and Im not done yet! ), not that there anything wrong with that but if your on a budget you have to do things a little different.

 

First finding a "rust free" Z will be the hardest and probably the most expesive part of the swap. This is also the most important part because fixing rust is not fun, it costs way too much fix rust and in the end you will be kicking yourself for not finding a Z that is as close to rust free as possible. So be sure to look for rust on the rocker panels, floor boards, and frame rails. If you have any rust in those areas it is going to have to be fixed so be sure to think about how much thats going to cost to get fixed.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

Guy

[datsunlover]

Well, I think you are in for some fun, but you're in the right place for info and help! I am considering a v8 in my 75 280 (just picked it up this summer), but I do have some knowlege of a V8 swap already: A chevy 350ci in an 85' Mazda RX7.

I built this about 3 years ago (sold it last year ) and what a project it was! I was in a similar situation, and wanted it 'bare bones' cheep as possible. I will say that it is a lot of work, but it is possible to do a budget v8 swap. Here's my rundown of the cost (as close as I can figure in my head) and parts finding;

 

$300 -Car; (blown motor, gas tank leaking)

$400-Motor/transmision mounts for Chev V8 into RX7

(at this point, I could not weld so I bought a pre-fabed kit)

$300-Motor and 3 spd auto,

(wanted a standard, but this setup was comlete,running, cheep, and availible from ANY local wrecking yard)

$450-V8 Rad;

(Howe aluminum 4 core stock car rad.. a little pricy, but worth the money for peace of mind)

$200-Exhast;

(Got some 'cherry bomb' mufflers, some universal pipes and clamps, and just ran straight duals exiting out in front of the back tires)

-Misc; electric fan (scrap yard), Guages (universal fit for V8's), auto shifter (scrap yard camaro), ect.... about $200

 

So thats $1850... and Im sure there was some stuff I forgot, but thats the big things/expences. Then throw in a bunch of my time hacking, cutting, hamering, fitting, re-fitting, building, breaking, re-building, ect and a year later I have a V8 Mazda RX7. What a blast to drive.. and it feels great to say "I built this". I start this beast up, and the roar snaps necks across the parking lot! Guys come walking over "WOW! Is that a small block in that little car?!?!" The double take is very cool too, when you leave the Civic at the lights and get to the next set before he gets 20 feet!

 

Anyway, I think you can get an idea of the cost involved. Rest assured: There are always hidden costs, but don't loose hope! Go for it man, you will learn a LOT by even attemting this kind of thing, and have something to be proud of in the end. Its also something you can keep adding to, working on and making better over the years (if you can hang on to it!) I always regret selling my RXv8, but now I have my Z so Im happy. I think the Z is a way better looking car than the RX7 anyway! Hope this helped. Take car man!

[Guest Mateo]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Yes, regarding that Z that is selling for $7000 is pretty nice, but from what others have pointed out, I actually want to build it. While some people look at it as a pain in the rear, I look at it as fun. Im looking for a Z starting Monday wish me luck and may the anti-rust gods be with me. Once I get a Z, Ill post the fruits of my searching. I won't be doing the swap immediately, hopefully Ill find a running Z and have fun with it for a while then go into the swapping process. So until then.

 

Matt

[Tim240z]

I commend you for the "DIY attitude". Just be carefull of two things:

 

Scope creep (the while I'm at it, i might as well do this, and this -syndrome)

Buying 'bling-bling' stuff before the necessities.

 

No matter what you do, your budget forecast will end up much lower than you actually expect.....so watch every penny if this is a low budget exercise.

 

Take from the folks here that have 'been there, done that'....I'm sure that everyone will agree, that's why we are all saying that it's cheaper to buy a completed conversion.

 

good luck and have fun.

[Guest BigWhyteDude]

if i were you i might want to look at maybe getting an eirly 280z 75or 76ish, simply b/c of the fact that they are a wee bit stiffer than the 240's and they are usualy a litle easier to find. Good luck to you man, i hope you find a car that is sutable for you. The JTR manual is indespencible when doing this swap, i havn't done it (yet) but i am working on it.

 

Good luck to you,

 

Andrew

[280Zone]

My $.02, The yellow car is right down the street from me and I know Ron well, but I still intend on building my own. I have been reading here for quite some time and would have to say that a lot of you have spent money learning for the rest of us (which I appreciate). I may spend a little more than $10,000 but it will be in easy to swallow monthly installments. I will also know everything part that is in it, and how old it is. One hing I have been told by other Hybrid members is that these conversions need to be fixed and having the knowledge from building it myself maintenance will be that much easier.

One other major point to remember is that this conversion is not something you want to tackle in a short time depending on it to be you daily driver (until is it finished). Car tinkering is much more fun if it is a project rather than something you need to depend on to keep the money flowing in. I appluad you gumption at tackling this type of project at your age.

[Guest goldraven]

I also started doing the swap young. i am 18 right now and nearing completion of the swap, did all the work myself, (exept the fabrication aspects). Not including the car, 1980 280zx T-Top (i baught for 2500) in near perfect condition. i've spent 3k on the project, and i am next to done...just a few more touches...probably total i will spend 3.2k. so you are probably looking at around 5.7k on the project if you find good deals on parts like i have done. Anyways, thats my 0.02 cents. Good luck and definitely use this site for reference, it is the only way i have completed my project. Keep us updated on how things are going!!

 

Nick

[RPMS]

Howdy, Matt, and welcome to the group!

 

I have to give you a warning here, in the interest of full disclosure. It'a a dirty little secret in the Z community that we don't let get out. Z's are a highly addictive substance. Once you get in, it's tough to get out. Some folks escape for a year or two, but they usually get sucked back in. It's easier to escape if you're not a "car guy" to begin with, but you sound pretty serious. Just be sure it's what you really want before you go jabbing that Z needle into your veins!

 

Okay, on to your question. The answer is... Nobody knows. IF you knew about both Z's and Chevys, you could probably do a darned good job for $2,500. When I started mine I had an extensive knowledge of Z cars, and knew nothing about American V8's. Through the extensive help of this site I didn't make many completely wrong turns, but I did go down a few unnecessary bunny trails that cost me a bit of money in the long run. I THINK I've spent around $3,000 on mine, but I'm afraid to total up the receipts. IMHO, I think I've got one of the nicer Z's for the money I've spent, but then again I haven't spent a single penny for someone to do anything I could have done myself.

 

If you can teach yourself bodywork and basic welding and can read an electrical diagram well enough to do wiring repairs yourself you can save a buttload of money right there. Your parents, by funding your car, are giving you a tremendous opportunity to learn many valuable skills, as well as innovative problem-solving, budgeting, reinforcing math skills, etc.

 

The swap itself is pretty much like following the recipe out of a cookbook, and though time consuming (plan on 40 hours to do the actual swap and you won't be far off) - the difficult parts are the same as you will encounter when getting any 30 year old car back into shape.

 

For the record, you might be surprised how quick a stock Z is right out of the box. Even though it only has 150 HP from the factory, their light weight makes them pretty fast. To put it into perspective, with a strong running stock motor they are as fast as the first three or four years of Mustang GT's with the 5.0 liter. 0-60 in eight seconds isn't anything to sneeze at, especially when you're just learning to drive. That's not a slam, and I don't want to discourage you from the idea of doing a V8 Z. What I do want you to realize though, is that there's a three-sided triangle composed of speed, quality, and expense. You can have two of the three elements, but usually not all three. You'll pay through the nose and soon exceed your budget if you want high quality done quickly. If you want cheap and high quality (and I think that's what I infer from your post) it will take a while. Drive your stock-engined Z for a few months (or even a few years, like many of us here have) while you accumulate high quality parts for your car at sale prices. Then you get the best of all worlds - you get to know your car in its stock form before you juice it up, you save money by buying parts on sale, and you end up with a quality product.

 

That's just my two cents - feel free to disagree!

[datsunlover]

I have to agree with that last post. I got my first car (and first Z too!) when I was 17. It was a beat up 81 280zx that I was the 13th owner of. Yes, lucky number 13! But when I finaly learned how to drive it, I was amazed how these cars can handle and accelerate in stock form! Back then I didn't know anything about cars... but the Z bug got me good. Over the next few years, I went through that one, a parts car (that was actually in better overall shape.. I was stupid ) and a near perfect one that wouldn't run properly (bad fuel injector). After selling that last 280zx, I vowed I would someday have another Z car. It took me the last 5 years, but I finaly got it!

And yes, it does help to know something about American V8's. I knew nothing when I started my RX7 V8, but most of my friends were Chev guys, so I got a lot of free help and advice. Also try to do all the research first, instead of buying things (like '350's' that are actually 305's but I didn't know about the block #'s and just took the guys word!)and getting burned. It eats up cash in a hurry! Just keep on asking questions and learning all you can, and you'll end up with a great ride in the end

[Len]

Be patient! every week pick up a bargain post or trader mag (along with want ads in your area). Get an idea on price ranges of decient Z's. In Oklahoma I've seen good running rust free 280's for around $3,000 (common Z's run around $600 to $1500). Remember sometimes paying a bit more for a rust free Z is better than spending forever repairing a rusted one. 240's are harder to find.

You have your head straight; on buying one, then driving it awhile. Get an idea of what you have. Hey even have fun with it. Since you may not stay stock; did you ever wonder how a stock 280z engine would run on NOS( yea baby!) I'm sorry; just started thinking; sometimes it get me in trouble .

Enjoy the cheap value of a Z car while you can, because as time goes on the price of Z's WILL go up due to guys like us running into ditches! Then needing parts cars to repair ours!

You are at the right Website read and learn!

Wish you the best!

Len

[Guest Z-rific]

I think the formula that works best for most of us is:

 

Figure a bottom dollar, bare bones dollar amount,

then multiply x 2.

 

A basic engine swap isn't terribly expensive. It's the other costs that will get you. Wheels and tires, suspension upgrades, brake upgrades, etc.

 

And, when you put a tame 350 in your car and get it on the road, you'll inevitabely want more power and more torque. Now you start paying for engine mods, and the cost keeps going up.

 

My only advice is to take your time with every step. Buying a car, looking for the cheapest quality parts, doing the work properly. The internet is a great resource for shopping for the best deals. Get to know places like Summit and Jegs.

 

Concerning your car buy...get a car with no rust in any structural area. Floor pans, frame rails, etc. Some minor body rust is okay if you want to do bodywork, in fact it is educational. Just make sure surface rust isn't an indication of deeper problems.

 

Okay, this is my last tip, spend about 20 hours on this site researching your little heart out. Any problem you run into will undoubtably be discussed here.

 

Good luck!

[V8ZRACER260Z]

Welcome to the game! I'm like you and did everything myself. It is a lot of fun and quite a few skinned knuckles!! The best part is taking it to an event and telling everyone you did it yourself. If you have a question make good use of the search feature. Chances are it's been done or asked before. Like it has been said before buy the best Z you can afford. I'm a paint & body Manager and knowe how much it costs to fix these cars. The car doesn't need a good engine but the body should be in good shape. Don't forget things like interior & exterior trim, those alone can run into thousands of dollars to replace. Texas should have some good rust free cars for the $500.00 to $1500.00 range. Then buy the parts needed for the caonversion and have a blast!! Good luck and again welcome!!

[Guest Mateo]

Update:

Monday-The search has begun. Found 3 cars just cruising around and checking classifieds. 2 are way out of my budget, guy owns 2, 2!!!! 72' 240Zs, garaged and covered, exactly what Im looking for, but he wants $4000 for each But I think I have got lucky and saw a black Z on the roadside with the sign "Make offer" Don't know of the year but going to check out tomorrow.

 

So when checking it out what should I look for? Where should I check for rust? How bad is bad when it comes to rust? Should I even look for rust since most people say this is Texas and don't have to worry about it? If it is a go, what could I do to prevent rust all together so I don't have to worry about it for a long time?(Im planning to keep this car for a long time to pass on to my son or heaven forbid my daughter )

 

Could you all post some links to sites or threads about rust?

 

Thanks

Matt(Hopefully Future Z8 Owner)

[80LS1T]

2 are way out of my budget, guy owns 2, 2!!!! 72' 240Zs, garaged and covered, exactly[/b'] what Im looking for, but he wants $4000 for each

 

Yeah $4000 might seem like a lot now but if those are completely rust free and the interior is in good condition then it will be money well spent. Especially on a 240Z. Those interior pieces are very hard to come by so the cost of them is outragous! And like I said before rust is extremly expensive to fix! Trust me $4000 spent now could save you thousands in repairs and interior pieces.

 

So when checking it out what should I look for? Where should I check for rust? How bad is bad when it comes to rust? Should I even look for rust since most people say this is Texas and don't have to worry about it?

 

Um yeah you should always look for rust! No matter what the owner says there could always be hidden rust. Look at the rocker panels, floor boards,(try poking a screw driver through the floor to see how stiff it is) and frame rails(especially by the battery)

 

 

Guy

[Len]

Years ago in Tyler they used to have a 100 mile bicycle race and Crit. I attended regularly called the "Beauty and the Beast". I remember Tyler good sized but don't rule out Dallas metroplex (larger population possibly more selection). Your not that far away. Check out the ads in their papers.

[johnc]

There's basically no such thing as a rust free early Z. The places to check are:

 

Strucutural

 

1. The battery tray and the area underneath it. Also look at the interior side of the firewall next to the battery tray.

2. Rocker panels. Be sure to check the rocker panel ends from inside the wheel wells. Poke a little bit with a screwdriver.

3. Floor pans in front of the front seats. Look for holes or patch jobs. Undercoating hides a lot of damage.

4. Front frame rails where the tension rods mount and where the front crossmember bolts up.

5. Radiator support and the area where the front anti-roll bar mounts.

6. Rear hatch striker sill.

7. Cowl area, especially inside the cowl where the wiper motors are.

 

Figure it will cost you $500 to fix each one of these items and these are items that should be fixed to keep the car safe.

 

Cosmetic

 

Bottoms of the front fenders and doors. Tops of the wheel wells. Around the front window and rear hatch glass. Around the gas filler lid.

 

Fixing these items is optional but, again, figure about $500 to fix each one.