Guest ZFord Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I started a 240 Ford swap about 3+ years ago. Got excited after reading Terry Oxandale's stuff on some other Z thing. Project is never ending because of snags I can't hurdle. I used "search" but didn't really find any definate answers. If there is such a thing as "definate".. So, hope this isn't too much rehash for you guys. but.... So. Headers? I went with the soft mount (in progress) not engine plates, so. I foolishly had purchased shorties. Obviously they don't fit. Is there an "off the shelf" set that squeezes in? So far, I read about "Sumit block huggers" and "Dynomax Block Huggers" is this the consensus. I can go with one of these and it will squeeze? Mounts. I ended up using 70's Bronco mounts and bolting up to the Frame. Not quite finished with that yet. Question: Do I need to reenforce the frame, since I'm not using the OEM pedistals? Glad to have finally found a gathering of Ford Z gurus. You guys that have done the swap, I just want to say good job. Everytime I hit a snag, the project turned into a dust collector in the garage. Now I want to get back at it. You guys rule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Welcome Sorry I can't help with the header problem as I haven't gotten there yet but it will depend how you have your motor mounted. How did you mount the motor in using the frame? It seams like all the ford guys used a diffrent way to do it so there isn't a "standard" header that is used. What are you using for a tranny? Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I'm a Chevy guy but I'm good buddies with a Ford guy. His car is in my sig! Jon, pipe up and give this guy a hand. You need to reinforce the frame rails if that is where you plan to mount the motor to. You, like others before you, will have nasty problems if you don't. If you want to streamline the process Alsil, a member here, sells a complete crossmember to mount the SBF in a first gen Z. As far as headers: I can't remember anyone that hasn't had to modify a set to make them fit. Good luck, and welcome to hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo240ez Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Hello ZFord, welcome to the forum. To answer your first question: There aren't any headers that bolt-in. You have three choices that I know of. 1) add a u-joint to your steering shaft to move the shaft outboard and make room for block huggers. 2) modify an off-the-shelf header to gain clearance. 3) build your own headers. Many guys have added a u-joint to their steering shaft. One install that I recall, was done by SCCA. If you search using his user name you'll find a link to his web site which has pics of his install. I think it's fonebooth.com but I'm not sure. The parts to do the linkage aren't hard to find on the web. I researched it back when I was doing my install and found a few resources (I can't recall the vendor right now, but if you're interested I'll locate the url for you). Personally, I chose to modify my Hooker block hugger header. It was an easier way to go for me at the time. What you need to do is cut pie-shaped slices out of the tubes at the header flange so you can angle the header in towards the engine about 1/2". But of course, if you replace your header, you'll have to do it all over again. I'm going to assume you can imagine what it involves if you decide to build your own headers. If you mount the engine to the frame rails you will need to reinforce them or you will tear the mounts right off. You can weld material to the top, bottom and sides. Or you can sleeve the frame rail with some tube stock where the bolts go through it. I chose to sleeve the frame rails. If you want more info on this let me know and we'll do it through email. Good luck. The Ford is a great choice for an all around sports car and worth the extra effort. Regards. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z8 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Was off the board for a few days and just saw this. I used the block hugger headers out of the PAW catalog with zero modifications and no u-joint in my steering linkcage. I fabricated my own motor mounts that attach to the frame rails that I reinforced with 1/4" channel steel. The front of the block sits 1" behind the front axle line, so I have what is now called by Nissan a "front mid-engine" design. The engine has a slight tilt towards the passenger side (to clear the steering shaft) that is only discernable upon close inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Z8 I was wondering if you could post some pics or email me with them as I want to see if it is like my way and if it is what mine will look like when it's done. I used 2.5" angle on mine. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZFord Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 First off thanks for all the input, everyone. Does "Al's" the "Backyard Z" crossmember require modifiications? I was hoping to use stock steering. I don't want to move the front end assembly. I was hoping to go around the steering shaft without U-joints. I was hoping to find some headers the squeezed in. Z8, I like the sound of your Z magic.. I hope I'm not dreaming with all those wants. I want it to fit without a hassle, too late. (insert smiley here) My doner 86 5.0 mustang was Injected will be carb, most of the fuel system was missing and the harness was cut. Its a manual T-5. I've gone with a hydralic slave throwout. I'm going to look into block huggers. (PAW's). I think I have to go with different Ford engine mounts, I have 70 bronco, you guys seem to be using early mustang. Z8, does your Frame Motor Mount span under the block? I like the look of the Backyard Z Frame spaning engine mount, it's number 9.jpg in the pictures cycling on the website, but I couldn't find more info. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z8 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 dp351zcar- I'll take some pic's and email them to you. Zford- My mounts do not extend under the block. As stated, I reinforced the frame rails with 1/4" channel steel and I am using 1/2" grade bolts all the way through the channel steel and frame rails. I also have two other attachment points from the stock motor mounts. One goes to the front of the block, while the other acts more like a heavy duty torque strap and attaches to the front of the drivers side head in two spots. (I used ARP head studs, and made sure the other three mounting points were preloaded before I did this) My set up will not win any trophy's at a trailer queen competition, but it's functional and it's hard to argue with 393 hp 400 ftlbs in a 2500lb car with a complete coil over/adjustable shocks/camber plates/3 piece rims w255-/285/40/15's, etc, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZFord Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Thanks Z8. Could I get a copy of your pictures you were going to send to Dp351zcar. Please. The thing I didn't like about under the block was I'd end up with a trapped "on" oil pan. That and I don't plan on altering my steering shaft unless I absolutely must. I think "Al's" mount requires it. Dp351zcar, do you have pictures? Sorry I sound so desperite for picutres, but I'm at the, Engine is floating in a hole, how am I gonna attach this, point. You guys tilt to clear the "header and the steering shaft"? Did that mean you have a tilt adjusted trans bracket? And last, Z8. I'm all for function and form over pretty. Sounds like you thought of everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z8 Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Send me you're email address and I'll send you the pic's I just sent DP. Take a look at his set up too, I think it's cleaner than mine. I wanted multiple attachement points because I do SCCA SOLO II and occasional track days and wanted a very solid install. I too wanted serviceability and did not want to "trap" the oil pan. Although, I think Ansil's mount is a work of art. My tranny also has a fabricated mount with four attachment points and was easy to set up. I just positioned the engine using the primary engine mounts loosely bolted in and supported by an hoist, then with the tranny bolted to the engine was able to line up exactly where I need to place my trans mounts. Keep in mind I cut out the stock trans. mounts and was not shy with a hammer in making room in the trans. tunnel or on the firewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZFord Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Z8. Thanks for trying, I got your last email.. I appreciate the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 For a bunch of Ford install pictures click Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZFord Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Hey, thanks for the picture link.. I think I'm going a slightly different route, but it always helps to see others face similar struggles and succeed. How important is a "straight line" on the driveshaft? And I'm not just asking about the up and down tilt, I'm also asking on the left to right. The tranny (T-5) looks like it favors the driveside when everything looks aligned, I'd like to give it a push to the passenger side but then my driveshaft will be offset? How much fudge room do I have on that driveline and is "straight" optimal or do you want some degrees of angle or something? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Actually, the differential propeller shaft is offset toward the passenger side of the car by about an inch. Pete, I believe, has some good info on the driveshaft alignment and tolerable angles and important considerations when shortening one. A search should net some info on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo240ez Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 roger what terry said.... I would have said "to off-setting driver wieght" though.!!!!!! yahhhhhh, works for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Actually, the differential propeller shaft is offset toward the passenger side of the car by about an inch. Pete, I believe, has some good info on the driveshaft alignment and tolerable angles and important considerations when shortening one. A search should net some info on this subject. Thanks for the plug, Terry Here's a link to my page on driveline mods and u-joint angles, etc.: http://home.comcast.net/~pparaska/drivelinemods.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 It's always good to see you and SuperDan grace our pages from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 I try to check in every week or so - search for my name in the forums to see if I can help with any info - or learn! Or just look at the latest page of threads in the forums. I don't have enough time lately to scan all the threads like I used to - I miss that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziceman Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I am in the final drop the engine in (this will be the fourth in/out to get mounts & headers right). I have tried 6 different headers and finally picked up a set of Flotech shorty headers, not the best quality but the have a slightly different collector angle that made it fit better. I cut off the flanges and welded a short extension tube to allow the exhaust connection under the car (makes it easier to remove). The headers clear the frame rails by 1/4' on each side. I made a new "engine cradle" that bolts to the frame rails and uses the flat truck style motor mounts. This gives me about 1/2" clearance to the firewall. The oilpan hangs about 2/4" below the crossmember (Used the Mustang oilpan with a hump in the middle). Engine goes in tomorrow and should have it fired up tomorrow night. I will try to borrow a digital camera and take some pics. John jkershaw@icrossroads.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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