jeromio Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Looks like Fastenal has online ordering - although I am hesitant to order stuff once again. I can never get to that place before they close. I tried Public - nada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Anyone have any recommendations for hardware sources? I've decided I'd like to use the 5/8-18 female parts I already have wince they're nice and the threads are fine (as opposed to coarse). I just cannot track down anyplace that has 5/8-18 reverse threaded bolts. I'm pretty much ready to order the only thing I can find, which right now is a set of heim joints for $11 each from Grainger. Seems a shame since I'll just be cutting those off - all I need are the threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 Wished I could help, but the NF threads makes it a tough one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 http://www.ubmachine.com/page34.html I was able to get taps and jam nuts from the local industrial supply place for the strut tower bars I made. I can't believe you are having such a hard time finding these. The webpage above has them. If you need, I can go buy some and mail them to you. EDIT--what I was looking at were LH jam nuts. I still don't think it would take very long to find, should be as easy as going to an industrial supply place and have them special ordered. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Well, I sucked it up and ordered the heim ends. Found some at Summit for $9 each including jam nuts. Since I had to pay the $9 "handling fee", I went ahead and ordered the Hooker 2-into-1 resonator that I have been eyeballing. That handling fee is clever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I finally started on mine this weekend. Only took me a year. First car project in a loooooon long while. I posted some pics and info here: http://240z.jeromio.com/rearToe I'm not done, so any and all comments/critiques are welcome and encouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 Great pictures. I wrestled with the idea of additional material to keep all parts aligned (with the bolts loose) with all the other parts as well. I finally settled on an angled piece with a single captured nut that allowed a bolt, oriented 90º to the other six bolts, to keep everything lined up while adjustments were being made. In the end, the six bolts are where the strength is for holding it all together. I kept the slotted holes "tight" so that any adjustment to the turnbuckle would not "fold" the two halves. The only other comment I have (which is kind of a silly comment) is that after all the work I did to fabricate this thing, once I got the alignment correct (5 minutes time), I've never had to adjust it again (well.... yeah! ) which makes it seem like a lot of work for so little time spent on it later. Simply slotting a split transverse link would do the same job, but the turnbuckle (which is the majority of the fabricating) is what makes any up-front adjustment so easy and acurate. Send out some photos when it's done and let us know how it turns out, total time and money spent, and your final comments. BTW, do you still want the straight 240 transverse link? If not, I'd be willing to purchase it from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 BTW, do you still want the straight 240 transverse link? If not, I'd be willing to purchase it from you.Doh! In the process of deciding what I was going to do, I hacked up the old R180 crossbar. It's in 3 pieces. I don't have a proper area to perform the alignment myself - garage floor is gravel and my driveway is not very flat or smooth. So, I'll be paying $$$ for a 4 wheel alignment. I need to hunt around and find someone good in this area though. Anyway, the turnbuckle will hopefully make it more user friendly for someone else to use. I also like the turn buckle for keeping the piece connected and as a sort of last resort safety mechanism. I think I spent about $25 on the turnbuckle pieces. The rest is just nuts, bolts, washers, some metal scraps. Maybe $30 total. My slotted holes did not turn out as nicely as I would've hoped. I lost my fancy burr bit and there's no place local to buy replacements that's open nights/weeknds. I used my plasma torch, but the cuts didn't come out super smooth. I need to clean them up with a new ($$$) carbide burr bit. I know I'll find the stupid thing as soon as I buy a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I installed it yesterday and today decided to try and play around with alignment. I think I have learned that my car is severely bent. I knew it had been in an accident in the right rear when I bought it. I don't know if it's that, or if it's just really bad from the factory. What I did was clamp two pieces of 42" long maple boards that I had to the rear wheels. Top of the boards (2.5" wide) right under the center caps of my wheels. I turned each wheel so that I could run the tape measure without hitting exhaust, etc. - matched the angles with my angle finder. Got under the car and measured the lengths between the front and rear of the sticks. I cranked my adjuster IN as far as it would go and still wound up with 63 1/8 in front and 64 in back. Severe Toe In: 1.2 degrees by my calc. And that means that I used to have REALLY severe toe in. Measuring the centerpoints of my rear swing arm axes yields 14 1/16". I cannot adjust it further because the arches of the uprights are hitting the arches of the bushing carriers on both sides. Measuring the diagonals shows an inch difference - longer from front left to right rear. So the rear wheels are steering left. Now I have to take the thing off the car again and grid away at those arches. Sucky thing is that the outer ovalled hole is really close to the edge of the arch. Also, my turnbuckle has like 3 threads left of adjustment. I'm not sure if that's enough. This is really worrisome. I kow that my measurements are not that exact, but we're talking differences of a whole inch, over a degree. The next thing I need to find out is which side is more screwed up - My guess is that the driver's side is fairly straight and most of that left-turn is coming from the passenger side. This sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 That diagonal measurement is interesting in that 1" difference is quite a bit!. I imagine the wheel positioning within the wheel arch is quite a bit off as well? The widening of the arched cut-out in the uprights is why I used an additional bolt on each side to insure the adjustable part would still be firmly held in place (3 bolts on each side instead of the OEM 2 bolts on each side). I knew it was going to be thin on one side of the slotted holes. This is also why I fabricated back-up plates to add more material with which to "grip" the uprights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I'm not too worried about the discrepency in the diagonal. It's an inch across the whole diagonal and using 42" long sticks. What I think it means is that some large percentage of my toe in is coming from the passenger side wheel exclusively. It sort of looks like you can see the toe difference in the tire to wheel arch relationship - but I have no other cars to compare it to. I don't really notice a difference in tire to fender clearance betw. each side. Did you happen to measure the distance between rear pivots of your setup when you were done adjusting? I'm wondering if maybe one of my rear struts or arms is just completely hosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Sounds like another one of those badly manufactured struts to me. They basically drill the hole for the spindle pin is drilled at an angle. This small error is magnified by the time you get to the end of the tire. I don't know if there is a test to see if the hole is drilled wrong, or if it is more of a "if everything else looks straight it's probably a manufacturing error" thing. EDIT--You might PM John Coffey. I know he's seen this firsthand. I'm not sure about fixing this with our toe adjuster either. That is a lot of misalignment on the bushings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Yeah, the more I ponder this the more I think I should remove both arms and make sure they are true. Right now I have almost an inch difference in the front and rear pivot distances. That can't be right - they should be parallel, yes? I should be able to fix the problem by cutting and welding the arm back together. The trick would be creating an accurate jig. This is turning into a hugely labor intensive project.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I think if the A arm was bent you'd see it. I think it is the spindle pin hole that is misaligned. It only has to be a bit off and by the time you get all the way out to the end of the tire that little error is magnified a lot. If it makes you feel any better I bought a new rear sway bar that I can't use and a bunch of material that I can't use too, so you're not the only one having trouble with this project... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I'm fascinated by this great solution to adjusting rear toe. I think I missed it somewhere in the dialogue...since this design essentially replaces the moustache bar, does the entire piece mount directly to car skeleton without bushings? That would make the differential a 'rigid mount' (for you Harley guys), right? Does this make the diff. 'clunk' in any way with high hp V8? Any added stress with rigidly mounting? Should I try to figure reinforcing that part of the skeleton? OR, am I all 'wet', and missed mention of bushing placement? Thanks! I'm going online and trying to source good Heim joints to make the 'turnbuckle'. Was the size posted? Last, do you think that this great design will work with R230-type case (from Infiniti Q45)? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 This adjuster does not replace the mustache bar. Back when this was a track car I fabricated a plate (no adjuster had been made back then) to solidly mount the parts in the rear of the car, but the toe-in adjuster (a separate part only recently fabricated) can be adapted to the OEM uprights as well (as Jeromio is doing). The adjuster is simply a modified transverse link that can be shortened or lengthened (on either side or both sides) only. so all bushings can remain in place. The turnbuckle is not even required, but makes the adjustments almost vernier in nature which helps a lot in getting those fine adjustments made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Again, my apologies for being ignorant; but, I think that I get the transverse link part of the design, however it seems from the picture that the 'plate' is one-in-the-same as this assembly. Am I not seeing the pics properly? Is the diff mounted to a completely different piece? If it is rigidly mounted, is that an improvement over the original configuration? Your website is extremely helpful; but, before I start cutting and welding pieces, I'd like to know that I am clear on my interpretations. If you could, please touch on all of the questions raised in the previous post (e.g. reinforcing the frame at the mounting points of the vertical supports). Thanks! post edit. I have looked at he pics again. So, the rear diff mount, and this piece with the 'wings' etc. are two separate pieces....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 post edit. I have looked at he pics again. So, the rear diff mount, and this piece with the 'wings' etc. are two separate pieces....?Terry is using a custom mustache bar that that replaces the stock mustache bar (rear diff mount) and the uprights that support the transverse link. I am using all stock parts. The stock uprights have been modified with a plate joining them together. The new, adjustable transverse link bolts to this now single part. So, are you talking about reproducing Terry's aluminum mustache bar slash upright? Or just the adjustable crossbar? When you say website, are you talking about my website, or Terry's? I guess I am a little confused by your confusion - I put up a whole lot of pictures.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Thanks. Actually, I had only looked at Terry's very thorough website. LOTS of great ideas!! Anyway, in answer to your question, I was planning on following Terry's design (in steel, because I don't know how to mig aluminum) IF I can figure out how to accomodate an R230...... Thanks! Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 The main reason for the large single plate that holds the sway bar, differential, and rear bushings of the control arms was I wanted a rigid means of mounting the three with negligible play or movement under the stresses of racing, and to provide an alternate means of adjusting the effects of the sway bar by moving the body mounting points of the bar, inboard toward the center of the plate to "soften" the bars effectiveness. In particular was the differential. Being I made the front mount solid, I had no choice to be make the rear mount compatible with the front, which meant it had to be solid as well (there is some debate about this requirement). But this plate is a separate piece, and issue, in regards to the toe-in adjuster. Another reason for the plate was the convenience in its fabrication due to everything lining up in back. It just so happens that the rear plate happens to be flush with a properly mounted differential (R200 in my case) mounting surface, plus in alignment with the OEM uprights and where the OEM transverse link attaches. For me, it was a no-brainer. Later (much later) I was finally motivated by previous strings on this issue, and thus I fabricated the toe-in adjuster. The plate made this more convenient being it was flat and continuous all the way across, but just a Jeromio has done, a welded plate across the OEM uprights will serve the same purpose. Now with the R230, provisions must be made for the thicker cover plate, which I am looking into at this time to help answer your other questions. There are photos at my hosting site that show the plate, and the adjuster as separate pieces. Also, I've not got the capability (equipment) to weld aluminum, so I simply jigged up all the pieces, and then took it to a sheet metal shop and had them weld it up for me. The aluminum is lighter and draws more heat away from the differential, which was another reason I liked about doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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