ToplessZ Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Hey Tim awesome progress on your car. I know you had your machinist fabricate some rear control arms and I was wondering what ever came of making those available to the public. I would really like to start making some progres on the suspension phase of my project. Im sure there are some others here interested in hearing as well. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 They are available. As is, or he is also going to make them with rod ends which will reduce the machining time drastically. He has a lot of time and $$ in the R&D for the first set (which I am currently testing). Price is very vague right now, but I'm sure that if a half a dozen folks get together a group buy thet price will be adjusted appropriately. At this point the price point is $500 to $600 per pair. That includes machined inner bushings (and outer ones in cases where rod ends are not used). These control arms are fully adjustable (camber and toe) on the car with no disassembly required (unlike the Arizona Z car ones, which require removal at the outer side to set camber). If those interested are willing to put down a 50% non-refundable deposit (to cover material costs), I will contact my machinist and ask for a discounted 'group' price. Paypal payments will need to go through me (he is old school, and until I can convince him to set up an account, I'm it), or cheques can be made out to Honeybee Engines. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 Ok well I was hoping for more around the 400 mark. I will be purchasing the rest of the suspension stuff with tax refund so These were on the list. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Jared....justy keep in mind my statement that he has not yet fixed a price. I will contact him to find out. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Tim, I'm very interested in a set. Can you post pics again and explain the machined bushing for me. Are the machined bushings less harsh than the rod ends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Jeff, I cannot really give you any comparison between the bushings and the rod ends, but I would imagine that the bushings would afford less harshness than the rod ends. #1: these are sliders to improve stability and reinforce the adjusting sleeves (somewhat overkill, but overkill is good 8) ). Loosen to adjust camber. #2: Camber adjusting sleeves. The control arms will arrive at OEM length (camber adjustment). Safe adjustment is 3/4inch out (neg), and 1/2 in (positive camber). That should satisfy everyone! #3:Machined bushings for spindle pin. #4: Offset bushings (delron). #5: (which I forgot to lable, but you can see the line) Sway Bar mount. OEM location Let me know if you have any other questions. These units weight 2.5 lbs more than the OEM control arms. They can be made lighter, but it starts adding to the material costs, since the thinner wall Chromoly is not 'standard spec' and has to be special ordered and is more than triple the cost. All the welding during the construction process is done clamped in a jig, so no pulling or warping occurs, everything is to exacting tolerances! The attachment 'rings' for the spindle pins are align bored and assemble perfectly!! These are very well made units, and I believe that the cost is a reflection of that. I have not put much mileage on mine yet, so I can't really give too much info there, but from what i have driven they do not seem at all harsh. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruxGNZ Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Wow, nice unit Instead of using the delron offset bushings, can one use OEM bushings? I'm assuming so, but you would lose a little adjustment, right? I like the sliders, really nice touch. Align bored for the spindle bolts? Damn, this unit is money 8) Me likey. !M! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Thanks Tim. I'm going to buy a set in the near future but I'm waiting to see Ross's design as well before I make a decision. They look like a very thought out and well constructed unit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 All we need now is the stress analysis.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 All we need now is the stress analysis.... He has done all the calculations (moment of bending etc etc etc...). IF you really want them, I can ask him to mail me them to me. Keep in mind, this is not the first time he has made custome suspension pieces.....he has made stuff for various race teams in various types of racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kc6wfs Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Tim you can count me in.. It will be about 2 weeks till I can get ya the deposit.... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 All we need now is the stress analysis.... He has done all the calculations (moment of bending etc etc etc...). IF you really want them' date=' I can ask him to mail me them to me. Keep in mind, this is not the first time he has made custome suspension pieces.....he has made stuff for various race teams in various types of racing.[/quote'] Yeah, I want to see the "moment of bending". Generally race cars get inspected at regular intervals for things like cracks in suspension pieces. They also get special inspections every time they go off road and hit the equivalent of a pothole. They also surround the driver with a full cage, 6 pt harness, helmet, blah blah so if your trick suspension fails you don't die. Me thinks street car people generally do none of these things. A good race car part isn't always a good street car part. Now that control arm in the picture might be perfectly fine, but depending on the wall thickness I see a crack in its future right at the intersection of the forward diagonal. Some folks see dead people, I see cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 OEM stuff is scary. You should see how my control arms look now after my accident. I would really like to know how secure the "sliders" are, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 OEM stuff is scary. Perhaps, although I personally consider the stock 240/260/280 parts to be pretty dang efficient strength to weight-wise, and pretty tolerant of damage (nicks, dents, etc.) before catastrophic failure. Furthermore, many "Plain Jane" looking OEM parts are actually normalized and heat treated after welding so their material properties are better than you'd expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Well Katman, You bring up a few good points, but I'd be interested in hearing WHERE you think the design might fail. We did some VERY serious load and stress analysis on the units I made and none failed... I couldn't say that for the THREE factory rears that SPLIT at various seams... Tim, you might want to have that data handy just to snuff out any concerns from would be buyers, or those just interested in bench racing to failure. Structural data is ALWAYS a good thing to keep around for any suspension parts... Oh, and for what it is worth, NO custom suspension part is techically LEGAL for use on public roads in the US unless it has been DOT certified...Each state handles it differently, So buyer/ user beware... All these parts are experimental and the user of said parts holds a significant portion of liability herein. This goes back to the argument I made on Juan's behalf. If you don't want custom fabricated parts that are of experimental nature, then keep it OEM, including coil overs and aftermarket springs, brakes and motor... They might fail! Might fly too! Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Probably one of the better discussion of this particular layout. http://www.hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7884 Also if that outer bar is held in place with those two nuts on the end of the threaded shafts, I would assume they include cotter pins of some type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stjoetalon Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Thank you for that reply Mikelly. It saved me from all that typing. Good Lord, I can believe the extent of the safety net some people require on low budget, low production parts. I have been a part of many types of automotive "communities" and this is the only place I have EVER been that pretty much discourages small guys from making parts that the big companies have neglected. All of these parts that I have seen criticized have seemed to be alot more substantial than the stockers they replace. Just because they havent been sent to a lab, they are no good? I dont get it. I understand that safety is a major concern. But damn... EDIT: I figured it out...there are just too many engineers here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Well Katman' date=' You bring up a few good points, but I'd be interested in hearing WHERE you think the design might fail. We did some VERY serious load and stress analysis on the units I made and none failed... I couldn't say that for the THREE factory rears that SPLIT at various seams... Tim, you might want to have that data handy just to snuff out any concerns from would be buyers, or those just interested in bench racing to failure. Structural data is ALWAYS a good thing to keep around for any suspension parts... Oh, and for what it is worth, NO custom suspension part is techically LEGAL for use on public roads in the US unless it has been DOT certified...Each state handles it differently, So buyer/ user beware... All these parts are experimental and the user of said parts holds a significant portion of liability herein. This goes back to the argument I made on Juan's behalf. If you don't want custom fabricated parts that are of experimental nature, then keep it OEM, including coil overs and aftermarket springs, brakes and motor... They might fail! Might fly too! Mike 8)[/quote'] Mike, you make some very good points. However, I am not going to get sucked into a pissing match like what happened to Juan (JSK) a few months back. Like you say, either you want it or you don't. If I wasn't completely (and I mean 100% completely) satisfied, I wouldn't risk 5 years of very hard work by putting them on my car. As with everything, Caveat emptor...... It's a very well made part, and many that have seen them agree, but no matter what I type here, some, many, maybe no-one will be convinced, so everyone make up their own minds.....'nuff said from me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I'm interested Hopefully I'll have some money after tax returns to cover it. Mike Kelly's stuff went quicker than I could afford. Keep up the good work. For the disbelievers: If you don't think it's not safe, then don't buy it. I've seen far too many OEM parts fail, especially when they're 30 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 EDIT: I figured it out...there are just too many engineers here Understanding Engineers - Take Two To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. Understanding Engineers - Take Seven "Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.