BBC Z

[5foot2]

Does anyone have any info on this car:

 

http://hybridz.org/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=3&cat=0&pos=32

http://hybridz.org/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=3&cat=0&pos=30

http://hybridz.org/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=3&cat=0&pos=31

 

I've got a 454 core and a straight rust free 78 280z sitting in the garage. I've been thinking this would be a fun project and not radically different from a SBC swap, but I'd love to hear from others that have done it before I start.

[80LS1T]

I've got a 454 core and a straight rust free 78 280z sitting in the garage. I've been thinking this would be a fun project and not radically different from a SBC swap, but I'd love to hear from others that have done it before I start.

 

A BBC in a Z is not even close to the amount of work that a SBC in a Z is. With the BBC you have to modify the firewall and not to mention with the BBC you will have tons of torque which is fine just as long as you have the FULL weld in cage, subframe connectors, strut braces and anything else you can think of to make the unibody stronger.

 

There is a reason that the BBC Z is not so common. Mostly because it wont be very everyday street car driving friendly. Unless this is a drag car it just doesnt make sense to do a BBC when a SBC will be much better for everyday use, IMHO.

 

Guy

[Mike kZ]

Not to mention the BBC is much heavier than a SBC, so there will be more weight on the front end and kill your handling. Unless you set back the BBC through the firewall but that is a lot of fabbing.

[5foot2]

*sigh* I was looking for a link or something about a car in the hybridz gallery, not a sermon, but whatever. I've looked into the weight differences and off the top of my head the std. BBC is around 200lbs heavier than a std. SBC (std. meaning iron heads, manifold, etc.). Aluminum heads, waterpump, intake, etc. offset most of that. Both motors share the same rough short block dimensions, the heads are larger so the engine set back will not be as great as some small block installs, but pretty close. As for torque turning the car into a pretzel, I'm not worried, subframe connectors are a given though I'll likely not install cage. I'm going to build the engine as per the Edelbrock power package specs: http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/chevy_2c.html. I'd expect to see 400-450 HP out of that setup, torque should be in the 450-500 range. Not an insane number IMHO. Now I know I can get numbers like that out of a small block without much trouble, but I think I'll end up with a more drivable car building that kind of power with a big block. My initial plans also include a tremic retrofit T56, R230, coilovers and Wilwood calipers and rotors. Looking at the pic I posted originally it looks like under hood clearance is an issue. cutting a hole in the hood is not someting I'd do. I was thinking I'd follow the lines of the bump in the stock hood and modify it into a cowl induction hood.

[jap tin]

Putting a BBC in a Z isn't that bad. I put a stock 396 and t-400 in a 71Z using the stock exhaust manifolds and not touching the firewall. A friend gave me a 65 wagon with the big block and 400 trans. I put it in just to see if it would fit. I used 65 truck mounts and 2 1/4" channel to bolt to the mount and set on the Datsun mount pad. It did look neat sitting in there but it wouldn't rpm like my small blocks. It only ran 12's at the track but it was a bone stock 396 station wagon motor.

[5foot2]

jap_tin: how was the hood to aircleaner spacing with the stock intake?

[jap tin]

There was none. at least not enough for the stock air cleaner. The 65 intakes were rather tall. The late model 72, 73, vetts had a flat intake that you could probably use a air cleaner with.

[5foot2]

jap_tin: I guess a cowl hood is the only real option with a carb. A tbi ducted to a filter in front of the radiator support may work. Thanks for the info.

[80LS1T]

I'm not worried, subframe connectors are a given though I'll likely not install cage.

 

Ok but dont say we didnt warn you when you cant close your doors!

 

 

Guy

[Sparky]

5Foot2

 

what did you want to know about that orange car? he is a member of my local Zclub and those pictures are of its first show ever.

 

here are some more pictures from the show:

 

http://resizeme.com/index.cfm?pg=browsealbums&albumid=657

 

i cannot tell you that much about it, and I dont even know his email adress but I will tell him at the next meeting that he should stop by here and throw down the specs on his car. the only thing i do know is that its a 396, 280Z chassis with custom flairs, subframe connectors and a half cage.

 

anywho...sorry I cannot be of more help.

[5foot2]

Thanks Sparky.

[Guest dancaprar]

Sparky, this might catch a bit of flak for this since I am disgustingly new to the whole "Z" crowd, but what year "Z" is that in your avatar? That is the kind I like and it seems like a '77 PLEASE correct me if I am wrong though. I totaled my Z28 last week and I plan on keeping for the drive train. Those scarabs and your avatar look sweet as...as....some sort of really nice looking ass.

-Dan

[Sparky]

the Z in my avatar is a 240Z from the Japanese Cartoon/comic/movie called Wangan Midnight. also known as the Devil Z. a minute google searching and some careful proding on some japanese website will lead you to many pictures and even a few clips.

[Guest dancaprar]

Thanx! I will make sure to find it. This place is awesome.

-Dan

[BBC Z]

I am the one that built the orange BBC Z that you are talking about. It is a street driven car. No the firewall does not have to be cut up to make it fit. The car handles very well better than a stock z does with the suspension upgrades that I have done. Yes it is a little heavier than the sbc but being this is my 3 v8 z that I have built there doesnt seem to be alot of difference in handling than my sbc cars. The only time you really notice the weight is when you push really hard into a corner. And I am running cast heads at this time, aluiminum would save about 80 lbs. I built this car to drive on the street and not to just go drag racing. It has a full interior and a nice one I might add full sound system. 22 gal fuel cell 6 speed t56. 18" wheels for wheel disc brakes Adjustable shocks and tokico springs delron bushing and . dual exhaust exit into a single 5" tip. the car drives at 70 miles an hour at 1900 rpm gets mid 15mpg and has about 450 hp. Havent run the quarter yet but should be in the high 11s low 12s. The car hooks well and goes like stink. So if you want to stick a BBC in your z email me at firegrass@hotmail.com and I will tell you how to do it. I have 1 5/8 headers that bolt on right out of the box and the frame is not notched, or beat in, it is completely stock. I just built my own motor mount and did alot of measuring. The air cleaner does stick out of the hood but I am building a Hood scoop for it at this time It just wasnt ready for the car when these pictures were taken 3 20 04 at the San Antonio Z sport car show. So don;t listen to all these people, they are making judgments on things that havent fully checked out. It is very clean install. I have some engine pictures in the general photo ablum. check it out for yourself. Heck I get even change the spark plugs in under 5 min. Loren

[5foot2]

Thanks for the reply BBCZ. Great set of wheels by the way. Installing the motor all seems pretty straight forward. I'd like to hear about Your suspension mods (spring rates) and what your doing for a rear end. Do you know the weight distribution, front to rear? How is the cooling? Are the fender flares hand made? Thanks again.

[pparaska]

If you're talking BBC Z's - got here: http://www.ratsun.com/

 

Also, for "different" approach, check out "Michael"'s BBCZ:

http://alteredz.com/MichaelOlsBBZ.htm

[Guest Anonymous]

I put a stock 396 and t-400 in a 71Z using the stock exhaust manifolds and not touching the firewall. A friend gave me a 65 wagon with the big block and 400 trans.

 

'Jap Tin' did you have to modify the trans tunnel at all the fit the TH400? Thanks!!

 

So if you want to stick a BBC in your z email me at firegrass@hotmail.com and I will tell you how to do it.

 

Loren

 

Awesome, you have email Loren!!

[BBC Z]

THE SUSPENSION IS THE BASIC GOOD STUFF. TOKICO SPRINGS ADJUSTABLE SHOCKS, I AM USING DELRON ALUMINUM BUSHINGS BUT RIDE IS FIRM BUT WOULDNT CONSIDER IT HARSH. I HAVE A HALF CAGE THAT GOES BEHIND THE SEAT AND THEN TIES THE REAR STRUT TOWERS TOGETHER I WILL TRY AND ATTACH A PHOTO. I AM CURRENTLY USING THE R200 REAR END WITH 3.73 RATIO I DONT KNOW HOW IT WILL HOLD UP BUT IF IT GOES I WILL PUT A R230 IN IT. I PUT 4 WHEEL DISC AND 18" WHEELS. I AM IN THE PROCESS OF BUILDING A TRIANGLATED FRONT STRUT SUPPORT BUT HAVENT FINISHED IT YET. I WILL FINISH IT AFTER I DO THE CARBON FIBER HOOD SCOOP. AS FAR AS WEIGHT GOES I HAVENT WEIGHED IT YET. I HAVE A FRIEND WITH 4 WHEEL SCALES AND I WILL POST THE WEIGHT DIST. WHEN THATS DONE. OH ABOUT FENDER FLARES THEY ARE HAND MADE THEY ARE ALL STEEL AND ARE WELDED AND FILED TO THE BODY. THEY DONT HAVE ANY BONDO THE WHOLE CAR FOR THAT MATTER HAS NO BONDO. THE FENDER FLARES WERE MADE BY METAL CRAFSTMAN RON HANSEN IN TYLER. HE ORIGINALY STARTED THE CAR AND NEVER FINISHED IT. IT WAS IN BARE METAL WHEN I BOUGHT IT 3 1/2 YEARS AGO YOU COULD SAY IT WAS JUST A BASIC BODY. THE PICTURE OF THE CAGE IS TO LARGE TO POST SO I WILL HAVE TO TAKE ANOTHER ONE AND POST LATER

[Michael]

I have a 1978Z with a 454 big block Chevy engine (pictures at link in Pete’s post). The car was built mainly for “street†purposes, but chassis reinforcement and various other mods were so extensive that street driving will be sparse, to say the least.

 

BBC vs. SBC is one of the great debates in grassroots hot rodding. For the same peak hp numbers, the BBC will be more streetable and reliable than the SBC. It will run smoother and stock parts will survive more abuse. But aftermarket parts are much more expensive. For example, the cheapest aftermarket BBC heads begin at $1700 fully assembled, and most are > $2000. In terms of weight, the BBC block weighs about 230 lbs vs. the SBC’s 180 or so. The crank is about 15 lbs more. The big weight difference is in the heads – about 60 pounds. Figure another 30 pounds weight difference in odds and ends. With a cast-iron block but aluminum heads, intake, water pump, flywheel, etc., the BBC will still be around 80-100 lbs heavier than a comparably built SBC. With the advent of large displacement small blocks, 406†and above, I think that the balance has shifted in favor of the SBC for street-driving purposes. And I say that as a BBC owner.

 

A BBC Z is something to build only after you already have a SBC Z under your belt. Keep in mind the two extremes of advice: most guys who haven’t done it are likely to consider it next to impossible. But, those guys who have done it are invariably veteran hot rodders, whose definition of “a little extra work†differs from the mainstream.

 

I am not a veteran hot rodder, so I paid a friend to do the metalwork. In my car, the front clip was cut off, the firewall and floor were cut out, the floor pan was shorted, a mild-steel tube frame was built on a jig and welded into the car. Then the firewall/floor were welded back in, then the front clip, then the missing segments of frame rails and sheet metal were reconstructed. The transmission tunnel was reworked to fit a Doug Nash 5-speed, the steering linkage was reworked to accommodate the firewall setback, the seats mount to the roll cage, the dash is gone because it conflicts with the cage’s dash bar, the radiator mounting is completely redone, and so forth and so on. The engine is so far back that the distributor sits just 2†forward of the windshield – and the car is still 51/49 (nose-heavy), but that’s with cast iron heads. Because it was completely gutted, the car weights about 150 lbs less than stock. With a stock suspension (one spring coil cut at each corner, plus the JTR bumpsteer mod – otherwise completely stock suspension), the car sits higher than stock.

 

No, you don’t need such extensive mods to swap in a big block, and if you already have a complete engine lying around, the extra costs of a big block are moot. I started from scratch, and in my view it only made sense to build a blood-and-guts race car if I were to go to the trouble of swapping in a big block. In terms of just getting the BBC to fit where a SBC already fits, it really isn’t that much extra work. The extra work is in making refinements to the car commensurate with the theme of a big block. Talk about the “while I’m at it†syndrome in the extreme.

 

As for hood clearance – with a high-rise dual-plane intake manifold (such as Edelbrock Performer RPM) and the stock 9â€-deep oil sump, either the sump will hang well below the frame rails or the air cleaner will hit the hood. My hood had a hole in it, with the air cleaners sticking through. Later I covered the hole with sheet metal and fiberglass.

Anyway, to summarize my views as a BBC Z owner: considering the costs, the extra fabrication, the aftermarket support for small blocks and the various challenges involved, I would recommend tackling the big block swap only if you have extensive hot rodding experience. E-mail me at ol_70@hotmail.com for more details.