Guest bastaad525 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 been doing a lot of staring at my I/C lately... it's just sitting there, quietly, in the corner of my apartment... horsepower just waiting to happen. Anyways... just been trying to figure out exactly how I'm going to get it in... I've been looking up pictures here but none of them seem to clearly show what I need to know. Anyways, it seems like it would be better, to have the inlet and outlet pipes going in opposite directions. So I want to run a pipe from the turbo outlet, out thru the radiator support on the driver side, thru the I/C, then back thru the radiator support on the passenger side, cross over in front of the engine back to the driver side and into the throttle body. Problem is, clearance looks like a serious issue. Every pic I've seen shows the pipe going under the upper radiator hose. And none I've seen clearly show the clearance between the pipe, radiator, and distributor (doesn't look like there's much room there...). If I run it like that, I'm assuming I will have to a) remove the fan shroud, which I am not too thrilled about, and remove the stock fan. Am I correct about either/both of these? Either one seems a bad idea... with the I/C blocking airflow to the radiator, I really dont like the idea of running w/o the shroud, I get a feeling that driving in traffic will become a problem. And I dont like the idea that to install my I/C I HAVE to go with an electric fan... just starts adding too much to the cost and labor involved to get this thing in. Anyways, can anyone confirm this for me or give me a better idea (with pics) of how I can install the I/C? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 If you run the pipe off the tb across the engine, it will not clear the shroud or the clutch fan. Do you have a photo of the intercooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZmeFly Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Im with Fl327, what type of intercooler are you using, we might be able to help you out a bit with the install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 It's a buick grand national I/C. I need to modify it to really be able to put it to use in the Z. The inlet and outlet necks come out of the top, are very long and bent at weird angles. Here's a link to an ebay auction of one with a very good pic: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7900073072&category=34198&sspagename=WDVW I was planning on modifying it, either by cutting off the stock necks and welding on two short necks that come out and make immediate 90* bends to have them pointing off to the sides, or of cutting them off, welding plates over the openings, cutting new openings in the sides of it and welding new necks there. Well... damn... so I was right, no room. I dont want to run both pipes out thru the rad support on the driver side... gonna make things awful crowded there, but better than having to get an electric fan and running no shroud I think... maybe... I dunno I've been sitting on this I/C so long it's starting to piss me off... I really want to get it in soon so I can up the boost and not worry about melting stuff..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 In order to retain the fan clutch and shroud and keep the piping short, I would have the outlets rewelded to go straight up, and turn the intercooler sideways. It will be hard to run a cold air intake, you might have to run it under the car or point it at a 45 degree angle towards the ground. If you want to run the intercooler up and down, I would add a 90 degree turn to the passenger side outlet and the drivers side outlet, but then you would have to center it since you probably dont have alot of room to offset it much to the drivers side of the radiator support. If you want to run the intercooler piping through the passenger side, I would add a 90 degree bend on passenger side outlet towards pass side, move the intercooler forward and leave the other side. If you want to keep fan clutch and shroud you have to route the pipe low, and the x member sway bar or something else usually gets in the way there, and to run it low you have to run a lot of bends and a really long pipe, not the best flowing setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean73 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 If I were you, I'd save your money for a better IC, that needs less mods to work with the Z. No matter what IC you use, chances are that you will need to replace the clutch fan with an e-fan. While you're at it, upgrade to an all aluminum radiator, because you're gonna need the extra cooling efficiency, since airflow through the radiator will be diminished by the IC. I'm running a NPR IC. I spent more money on plumbing, silicon connectors, and clamps, then I did on the IC itself (probably ~$300-$400). It took me atleast 4 weekends to successfully integrate the IC, radiator, and AC condensor into the engine bay, and build all the necessary bracketry. Had I known of all this trouble, I would not have hesitated to spend much more $$$ on an IC. Also, finding a place for the cold air intake was challenging, and required more plumbing, more money, and moving the grill forward an inch. I have a Z31 MAF, which makes plumbing a lot easier. With the flapper style AFM, I don't know how people do it. If you must use the GN IC, I would have both ends modified to run parallel with the core tubes. I would plumb it out from the J-pipe to the driver side of the radiator support, through the IC, then out on the passenger side of the radiator support., then finally to the TB. This plumbing arrangement isn't optimized for pipe length, but it does give you a little extra room on the driver's side to run a cold air intake. I'll see if I can post some pics of my setup tonight. Sean 73 240Z, L28ET, 84 ECCS, NPR IC, T3/T04E turbo, porsche fuel pump, custom surge tank, adjustable fpr, griffin radiator, 3" mandrel exhaust, R200, totally rebuilt suspension, stock brakes (almost ready to fire up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 In order to retain the fan clutch and shroud and keep the piping short' date=' I would have the outlets rewelded to go straight up, and turn the intercooler sideways. It will be hard to run a cold air intake, you might have to run it under the car or point it at a 45 degree angle towards the ground. [/quote'] This is not a bad idea. It would leave a lot of the radiator still open to free flowing air, as well as of course keeping my stock fan and shroud. Also it would save me a lot of modding of the I/C, and would keep the piping relatively short. Well... about still having the filter situated in a way as to draw in cold air... hmmm... well maybe if I cut out a bit more of the radiator support? I already enlarged one hole in the support for the air filter (not the topmost one, but the smaller one right under that) maybe if I cut an opening and joined those two holes into one large opening? I think I could get enough room for the filter, and two I/C pipes there... what do you think? One pipe above the AFM, and one below (the one to the TB... it would take some bends to get that in there I know) Or maybe I will do like Jersey and hunt down one of those Eclipse afm-to-turbo rubber hoses, but that will move the filter into the engine bay... I know it's conterintuitive, but how big of a deal is it to have the filter drawing in hot air from the engine bay, if it's passing thru an I/C afterwards? I'd definately like some more ideas here or pics of similar setups if anyones running theirs like this (both pipes thru the driver side rad support). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Have you thought about clocking the turbo outlet towards the ground? This way you could run you pipe under the front radiator support. I looked at this possiblity when trying to setup my pipes, but my IC was simply to larget o get creative with hte placment. It looks like you could put that thing where ever you wanted. I think 2.25' piping would be the best choice, i think it is plenty big and would allow you much more room to plumb the pipes in your e-bay. Also i would think you could get tighter mandrel bends with the smaller diameter piping. I know mine was a pain to get plumbed. Anyway heres a pic of my setup, course i dont have a fan shroud, mech fan, or distributor, im also running 2.5" piping. i believe that you could work 2.25" piping across the front of the engine bay as long as you were careful and made some bracket to hold it all in place. cheers -Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Austin, thats a nice looking engine. Yeah, plumbing around the afm sucks. To think I once got 2.5 inch pipes to go around it boggles me, I really had to hack that radiator support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 If you can hang on a week or so I'll show you what I've done with my GN IC. I'm cutting off the pipes at the top of the endtank, then welding a plate over endtank with a hole cut and a short pipe about 3" long going up. I've already got two pipes going parallel to upper rad frame. I'll make up two elbows to connect to the new pipes. I've got my pipes coming over above the maf, with one going to the turbo and one to tb. I can post or email pics to you if you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Austin - I've seen a lot of turbo setups hanging around this board but you're definately ranks as one of the nicest I dont think even with 2.25" pipe I could get it around the front of the engine w/o getting rid of the fan and shroud. I'm gonna try to get a small section of pipe that diameter and just check clearances at different areas. I do like your idea about possibly reclocking the turbo outlet to point down and running the outlet pipe underneath the radiator... what are the risks it might scrape or whatever if I hit a dip too fast or something? So far you guys are giving me some really good ideas, thanks so far... I've got: rework the inlet/outlet pipes on the I/C to point straight up. Mount the I/C 'sideways' with both pipes facing the driver side. Reclock the T3 outlet to face down, run the turbo outlet pipe down and then out under the rad support, then run the outlet of the I/C thru the upper hole next to the radiator and back into the TB. What exactly is involved with reclocking the turbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Reclocking the trubo is super easy. You just loosen the bolts on the housing and spin it wherever you want. there is one thing i forgot about if you do this. You *may* have to make a new bracket for your wastegate actuator, but then again you may not. Jut have to mes with it and see... -Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I fit 2.25" piping over my fan pulley no problem on one setup. Mechanical fan. No shroud. Nothing special... there is room without the shroud. (and I expect with it too) Austin's engine bay has been giving me inspiration for quite some time. After seeing that I did not hesitate to wrinkle black powdercoat my intake and valve cover, I was on the fence for a while! I've probably spent about $400 on plumbing for my $225 intercooler. I'm glad it's a good cooler, but honestly I could have spent an extra $200 on the cooler and got a spearco core, made my own tanks, and probably saved $200 on plumbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 The plumbing often does cost a whole lot more than the IC, especially if you are using ones made for another car. I bit the bullet hard and got a Spearco 221, used to run a small NPR. I did spend a lot, but I consider the intercooler a part of the body as well as a very substantial part of the hp of a turbo setup, and wanted both to do their job well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 I have 2.5" across the front of the valve cover and I still have the stock fan and shroud. I did have to trim the shroud a little. I'll post a pic when I get home. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 I rotated the turbo output nossel downwards and ran an output tube (2" OD) under the oil pan then turned the pipe up behind the alternator then out of the engine compartment on the passenger side of the the radiator. Then I relocated the AFM to the front of the radiator (extended the wires) and ran the intake tube (2.5") and tube from the cool side of the IC (2.5") into the engine compartment on the drivers side of the radiator. I posted the photo of this setup in the photo album between 6 and 9 months ago (I think). It looks good and is easy to work on. The car ran 13.7 @ 106 mph in the 1/4 mile with a slipping clutch, 10 to 12 psi of boost, 5 spd, stock T3, spearco IC, custom 2.5" down pipe, 2.5" exhaust, r200 3.90, stock 76 efi, and 80 psi of fuel pressure from the FMU. On the dyno it made 235hp but was very lean (stock NA injectors are maxed out). Boost comes on very fast and as low as 2000 rpm. There is a perfect area for the IC tube to run under the oil pan in a first gen Z. The IC tube is higher than the lowest part of the oil pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 Here ya go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguy95135 Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 Purple240ZT has his intercooler set up for sale in the classifieds, the price isnt bad either http://hybridz.org/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=zClassifieds&file=detail&cat=72&de=91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 That works if the stock dizzy is not being used. If the dizzy is used then you have more troubles trying to get back across, I can with electric fan and 2.25" piping, but not with stock fan and shroud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 You can make 2 1/4" work with stock fan and dizzy, I machined a spacer to push the stock fan outward for more clearance. It is basically scottiegnz's old routing. On the turbo side I had to cut the end off his piping and use a 2" to 2 1/4" 90 silicon elbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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