johnc Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 After watching EVOs blow up left and right at OTC, hearing Supra explosion stories from Amir, and then reading some of the latest posts in this section - what's up with you Turbo guys ignoring basic combustion theory when building (or tuning) these engines? Ya think a Turbo is some magic device that allows ya'll to ignore the basic facts of detonation, preignition, and lean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid240z Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 There goes another Turbo motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 You give em a knob and they just can't stop turning it. I'm on my way to finding that limit, maybe the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 yeah or you do like me and follow all the right steps and go to a dyno and verify you're running safe and then mysteriously blow a head gasket anyways. This is why I wish for my N/A back... man when I first built that thing, with 10.3:1 compression, running super lean on stock EFI, man it pinged like crazy.. and back then i had never heard ping so I didn't know what that sound was (it threw me off because I swear I heard it from the exhaust... whereas everyone told me ping is most audible from the engine itself!) so I would lay into the throttle every day and wonder what that popcorn sound was. man when i finally took that motor apart (of course by then I had known I was pinging the heck out of it) I was amazed... the thing still looked brand new. No signs on the pistons, rings, in the combustion chamber... nothing that said this motor had been detonated like crazy. Gasket was in good shape... motor was in great shape, compression tested fine, and didn't have any abnormal wear. Bearings were great, and no excess play in anything. That was with 30,000 miles on it. What finally caused me a problem? 13 year old fuel in a fuel tank that I THOUGHT had been cleaned out... essentially varnish now... getting into everything and throwing the whole thing to hell. When I blew my head gasket on the turbo, I cant say I even heard one ping at all. It's still questionable what might have caused the gasket to go... but in general this turbo motor has not proven nearly as reliable or capable of taking punishment as my N/A motor.... Sorry... couldn't help but rant on this one. I know turbo motors in general are reliable if you treat them right, and I know how easy it is (just one more PSI!!!) to blow them up... thing that pisses me off is I do my damndest to treat mine right and mine keeps blowing up anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 MMmmmmmm... SDS.... Big IC.... adequate fuel... "Low" boost..... = less time wrenching and more time driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeder Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Yeah, what Drax said. Set it up correctly and use restraint on the boost control and it'll last as well as any other engine of comparable output. The emphasis is on the restraint. I had to learn that the hard way. Probably like many "Turbo Guys", the unique feel of a "dialed-in" turbo car makes the learning curve worth it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majik16106 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 You can't fool me John! I've seen the fast and the furious way too many times to believe that, turbo cars dont blow motors.. they blow the floor plans right out from under your feet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2many280s Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Noooo the floorpan was from using too much Nawwwzzz Turbos are harmless 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 rubbin's racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 They don't call manual boost controllers 'dial-a-hole' for nothing.... You're right John - they get a big blood rush & forget about everthing they know about sensible tuning, next thing they wonder why their wallet is so light! Big Boost = cautious tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Well, I have had my motor in the car for more than 4 years and have not blown it up yet However, give me some more time and I will see what I can do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 They don't call manual boost controllers 'dial-a-hole' for nothing.... HeHe - Ben - Around here, the're called 'dial-a-boom' But seriously - If you have your wits about you and are paying attention, most damage is preventable. I had some tuning problems with my current turbo (WG problems). When the boost gauge goes off of the end of the scale, get out of the throttle. Quickly. No damage to a stock bottom end though. Standalong EFI is the way to go with turbo. As Drax and others have said - caution and sensibility when tuning. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted May 6, 2004 Author Share Posted May 6, 2004 The classic example is a friend of mine who bought one of the first EVO8s sold here in the States. With less then 700 miles on the car he purchased the first flash a well known tuner developed for the car's ECU. 6th lap at the track - smoke and oil everywhere. Quickly flash the ECU back to stock and get the car repaired under warranty. Car's back together. The same well known tuner flashes the ECU again with a more "conservative" boost plan (max boost same as stock, but full in 1,500 rpm earlier). Car makes it 15 laps before smoke and oil everywhere. Quickly flash the ECU back to stock and get the car repaired under warranty but dealer is on to the scam. Warranty denied - $9,000 engine replacement bill looming. The word "Tuner" is becoming synonymous with "Idiot." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 The classic example is a friend of mine who bought one of the first EVO8s sold here in the States. With less then 700 miles on the car he purchased the first flash a well known tuner developed for the car's ECU. 6th lap at the track - smoke and oil everywhere. Quickly flash the ECU back to stock and get the car repaired under warranty. Car's back together. The same well known tuner flashes the ECU again with a more "conservative" boost plan (max boost same as stock' date=' but full in 1,500 rpm earlier). Car makes it 15 laps before smoke and oil everywhere. Quickly flash the ECU back to stock and get the car repaired under warranty but dealer is on to the scam. Warranty denied - $9,000 engine replacement bill looming. The word "Tuner" is becoming synonymous with "Idiot."[/quote'] I couldn't agree more. I have seen firsthand the work that some very well known "tuners" have done for the TEC-II, and most of it is absolute crap. For instance, $500 to "street tune" a car, and the only things they did was put in a basic ignition map, set the base fuel curve (two points) and left the VE table BLANK . It ran like ASS and as I recall the guy told the customer that it was supposed to be like that - it's a race engine. I'm in the wrong business. (The one exception to this was Shiv Pathak's (Vishnu) cal for his Subaru 2.5RS Impreza turbo kit - this cal was actually pretty impressive as delivered) IMHO, if you are not willing or able to understand how these things work and how to tune them (i.e., do your homework), you should seriously consider leaving it stock. As for your friend with the EVO - sorry I don't have much sympathy (or respect) for morons that half-assedly modify their cars, blow them up at the track and then defraud the dealership/manufacturer for "warranty" repairs. That guy is exactly the reason many others get rejected for legitimate warranty repairs. IMHO, I'm sorry he didn't get rejected the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixcars Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 "what's up with you Turbo guys" Please read my signature! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted May 7, 2004 Author Share Posted May 7, 2004 I talked with Shiv at some length during OTC this year. He had entered an EVO8 in my class and had Ken Dobson (from Speed Touring BMW fame) driving it. Shiv was basically using the event as a test-n-tune for some EVO mods he plans to sell later. His EVO didn't blow (although the crank sensor mount and clutch failed) and he was running pretty fast. Gary Sheehan runs a WRX in USTCC and he raves about the work Vishnu does. I have heard a few complaints about Shiv's customer service, but maybe he's just tired of dealing with Wankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 yummm.. boost.. blow up motor time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 How would you know the full potential of your build unless you start breaking stuff? Whatever blows was probably weak in the first place. Replace it with something stronger and try that 20psi run again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 How would you know the full potential of your build unless you start breaking stuff? Whatever blows was probably weak in the first place. Replace it with something stronger and try that 20psi run again Thats what im talking about. Im losing 2nd gear as we speak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 it's hard to resist a turn of a wrenc or screw or whatever can yield more power, it's just sooo easy to add horsepower it's hard to know when to stop, it takes a lot of discipline to self impose a limit on your boost, I am running 8 psi on my stock junkyard motor now with that little boost controller bagging me for an extra turn or 2 it's very tough to resist I compare it to racing on street tires then switching to race ruber the first time, the race rubber seems to have no limits till you cross the limit then seemingly without warning they brake loose with much more consequence than street rubber you just moved the bar and have no idea where the edge is till you cross it and then it's too late, Nitrous is the same way, very easy to get greedy but once you cross the limit it's gonna cost you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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