Guest GoaTSLonG Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 ok i just bought my daily driver and got it running good (87 RX7) and i am now going to start planning my 240z conversion. i want to end up with a car that is going to be reliable, smooth, powerful, and most importantly i want it to handle amazingly. these are my choices and they are both completly different so i want you guys who know alot more than i do to advise me on which is a better choice. choice 1: 460hp 350sbc crate motor from www.crateengines.com, borgwarner t-56 6 speed, chevy rear end, and ALOT of suspension and brake upgrades. choice 2: LS1 or LS6 crate motor, either supercharer or a BIG turbo, corvette rear end, borgwarner t-56 six speed, ALOT of suspension and brake upgrades. all the work will be done at UTI while im at school and i will be helped out alot by the teachers. which swap do you guys think is better? i have alot of funds up to $40k if i have to but im not planning on going that high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 well the parts and availability is far better on the gen 1 sbc engine but why get a 350 when a 427 will weigh about the same and have way more hp and tq, besides all the parts like motor mounts for the swap are standard with that first gen sbc swap youll have far more expences and problems working on the ls6 swap due to the EFI while a carb on the first swap will prove to be easier to deal with and aluminum heads and intake and water pump on that 427 will get the weight down to the point that the ls6 will not have a huge advantage even in weight, plus the ls6 is wider makeing it a harder swap. http://www.theengineshop.com/engine.shtml Hardcore Motown 427 "Crate" Motor Disp. Block Heads Intake HP Torque Part # Price 427 c.i.d. Motown Cast Iron 220cc 505 520# 216-86810 $8,495.00 427c.i.d. Motown Aluminum 220cc 530hp 540 tqs# 216-86815 $8,995.00 then Id add,, corvette rear end, borgwarner t-56 six speed, ALOT of suspension and brake upgrades. or if your really power hungry http://www.camaroengines.com/chevy650.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 WoW, that's alot of engine!!! does that thing weigh the same as a 350? Heavy Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GoaTSLonG Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 i dont think i want to spend $9000 on a engine id rather spend $4000 on a 460hp 350 and get it stroked to 383 and super charge it and it would be close to 650hp and lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 "i dont think i want to spend $9000 on a engine id rather spend $4000 on a 460hp 350 and get it stroked to 383 and super charge it and it would be close to 650hp and lighter." youve got to be kidding RIGHT!..$4000 on the engine +$1700 MINIMUM FOR A FORGED 383 stroker KIT THAT HAS ALL THE PARTS,$200 average for a ballance job,$2200 MINIMUM for a decent supercharger, plus $400 MINIMUM for gaskets, studs, brackets ETC. =$8900 minimum and much more likely $10,000plus for an engine that weighs more and has more systems to go wrong and thats IF you do all the work, if your getting someone else to do it your looking at at least another $3000 to build and setup and tune that supercharged engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 GoaTLong, Do yourself a favor and listen to this man... GrumpyVette knows of what he speaks... I'll be more than happy to sell you a 383 rotating assembly (forged Rods, forged pistons, rings, crank) for $800, But you will be spending ALOT to get to 650HP... It ain't cheap, no matter what people are telling you. You also need to heed the warnings about preping the foundation (Your engine block) for a supercharged induction system... The best bolts EVERYWHERE will go a long way towards starting this project properly... Also, Be forewanred, I've been burned on a crate motor purchase... They don't always put in the motor what they spec... Once you have put a few thousand miles on it and have to tear it down, it is too late to complain then... Drop the pan, pyll the valve covers, hell, I'd even pull a head to MAKE SURE what they spec'd is what is in the motor... I believe it was BLKMGK who warned me of this years ago and I just blew him off, thinking it was BS... Wish I had listened... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank280z Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Hey Grumpy. Can you post the specs on the vettes? I'm interested in the 92 and 96? I have always wanted to get into a c4. Thanks, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 sorry Frank280z MY VETTES ARE NOT FOR SALE AT ANYTHING CLOSE TO A REASONABLE PRICE, but if you want to buy your own and mod it thats cool and Ill be glad to tell you what does and does not work. you can find a 85-96 vette in good running shape with a good body for $5500-$20,000 depending on year and options,(or much less if your willing to buy one with a crap interior or blown engine ETC,) if you drop another $6000-$10,000 into mods you can have a nice running air conditioned 500hp plus viper killer that you can comfortably drive on long trips, if thats what your after. but keep in mind that a 3300lb vette will never quite run as fast as a 2700lb (Z) with the same engine but then the modded(Z) is more a true hot rod than the vette but the vette has its own unique appeal and lots of support in parts, clubs,web sights,replacement parts, and just plain recognition as a hot car by the guys that don,t realize how fast a fully modded (Z) can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z-rific Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Am I the only one here who wonders why anyone would want to put 650 horses under the hood of a Z anyway? Maybe if you're strictly gonna drag it, then okay. But if you're driving it on the street....Holy Frijoles. These cars came with 160HP engines. With technology that is 30 years old. To get a suspension and drivetrain setup to properly handle this power would involve bolting on a whole new rear end and modifying the front end until it's unrecognizable. At that point ($20,000++ later) it would probably be much smarter to grab a Vette and do a Grumpy modification. How do you get 650 horses off the line anyway without fogging mesquitos for miles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 Guy's I just crawled out from under my Z to write this (really I needed to take a leak!). This post got me thinking. $40,000.00 Lets spell it out out of respect: "Forty Thousand Dollars". If I had that much to spend on a car. I think I would be looking ahead at resale of what I invested all that money into. I'm sorry; I do love my Z. But I know I would lose money if I had to sell her. I remember that; when I dream and get carried away with all the neat things I read on this site you guys have done to your cars. I have to take a few steps back to my reality. I guess I'm going to lose my HybridZ Exec. bathroom privledges for this next statement! I would probably be looking at maybe a vette along the lines of what Grumpy has. If that is to heavy then I've heard of those Cobra Kit cars. I just know back in 1984 when I tried to get a loan to build a underground house. My banker friend said no. He said if they got it back in foreclosure; and they had to sell it. Maybe seven out of ten people would be interested. If you took the same ten to a normally build house all ten would be interested. I feel that carries over to anything expensive a person invests in. Even our toys. I try to think "what if I ever needed to sell this! Life is unpredictable. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 No Len, you don't lose your privelages... Look in the fro sale section at the Mustang I posted a week ago.. That guy has an estimated $30,000 invested in that car, and it is a SWEET setup. You could drive it to a car show and place well, drive it competitively, or cruise in it with the T-Tops out and the AC blowing... He'll be lucky if he sees $8000 for it... If those mods were on a corvette, H-E-L-L-O... Someone would buy it, no doubt! Zs are even less marketable, which is why ZF Racing LLC will likely change brands for major product sales... No way, NO HOW I'm gonna survive off the Zcar market... Here's your Key! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 How about $40K into a downpayment on a house? Maybe take $10K and put it towards a Z - you could build a very nice one for that. Put the rest in a RothIRA. I'll be 50 before I can afford/justify that much outlay on any kind of a car (well, hopefully closer to 40). One of the things that attracted me to the Z in the first place was its high performance/cost ratio. If I had a nice $250K/yr income, I woulda just bought a Z06, rather than aggravate my wife (and often myself) with this (endless) project. But, since this is a thread about things automotive, I'll weigh in with my "No Carburetors!!!" statement. EFI is the only way. Go with an LT1 or even the LS1. Keep the IRS though. Just convert it to CV joints and disc brakes. No sense cutting up the car for a reduction of traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 With a blower then 650 HP might still be reasonably streetable. I guess it depends on your defintion of "reasonable". The limited traction on a Z will prevent using all those ponies and torque anyway. But boy howdy would that be fun!! Also, if you are going to build a stroker with a blower, why start with a high HP crate motor to begin with? You are going to have to replace all of the internals to get the most out of the forced induction, so why not start from scratch? Also, is a 383 stroker really a good starting point for a blower motor? Do you give up any bottom end strength by machining parts for the longer stroke? Someone educate me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utvolman99 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 You have a good point about blowing a 383 you would not have to worry though if you went with an aftermarket block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utvolman99 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 Looking at the options though I would rather just have the extra displacement. It looks like the cost would fall out around the same and the simpler the better. Plus you have the added advantage of no one knowing just how many cubic inches your running. There are a lot of people in my new town asking about the car Im building. As far as everyone else knows its a 305 out of a truck with a set of fuelie heads. Little do they know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 You know, it took me a long time to realize just how SMART that statement was. I pissed away SOOOO much money in my 20's and didn't buy a house until I was 31... Dumb Dumb Dumb... With it SOOO much easier to buy a house these days, and most of them pretty much giving you equity within a short turn around, I'd ABSOLUTELY buy a house... Just get one with a garage so you can tinker... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jens Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 The best way to build a car for 40000$ is a streetrod. Everything is new. You can choose any suspension and engine. The frame is strong and you dont have to worry about rust because the body is fiberclass. And the best of all its the lightest car you can build. If you find it too hard to do build a cobrette on a vette frame. They claim it only weighs 2400. 650 hp in a z means you have to consider a frame or a lot of heavy rollgage tubes taking most of the room in the car. www.vipercarparts.com sells the cobrette kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank280z Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 Thanks for the heads up Grumpy. I was just inquiring about the mods. I have looked at and driven the stock vettes. I was just wondering how effective your bolt-ons and/or major mods were. Email me. I don't want to fill up the Z forum with vette questions. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 Guys, My friend has a 1977 280Z that has a sbc 383 with a B&M super charger on it running 6 lbs. Talk about hp over kill. I love his car but on street tires( very good ones) it will not hook up. The car has a 700r4 in it and first and second are a smoke fest and thats even short shifting at 3600 rpm's. Now slicks would be another thing, then it is scary fast. We G-teched it the other night and with no traction the mph for the 1/4 was right at 130 with smoking tires and short shifting. Car dyno's close to 600 hp. Fun but to squirrelly for my blood. Give me 400 hp and I would be happy in my Z, Oops guess I do have that kinda power already and it is very driveable. Plus CHEAPER!!! Mike PS. Daniel if you read this it was not a knock on your car!! Just TOO much for my blood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Mike I have done more than my share of pissing away my 20's I build my house in 1986 when I was 31 also! I guess we regain our sanity in the 30's. I didn't build a underground house but I did build a house using 6" styrofoam insulation that I average about $170 per month energy cost year round. On a total electric house that's 3450 sq. ft. You see you need to move to Oklahoma construction costs are alot cheaper than the east coast or the west coast where I was born (San Jose, CA.). I also build just 3 years ago my own pride and joy (and lifetime dream)which is a 40' by 60' two story metal building that houses all my junk. Z cars are my outlet. Some people spend money on golf. I enjoy my Z Its a great stress reliever. I don't feel guilty working on and spending small amounts of money as compared to people who soup up a brand new car. Those people I feel are losing site of the goal which is the most power and speed/manuverability at the cheapest price. Along with the creativity this website accomplishes using those restraints is simply amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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