next welder?

[grumpyvette]

http://www.jandrweldingsupply.com/store/Millermatic251.html

 

http://www.brwelder.com/indextemplate.cfm?file=shop/results.cfm&SubCategory=1

 

 

Millermatic 251 & 30A Spoolgun This item is on sale.

MILLERMATIC 251 With 30A SpoolGun Package

# 951 007

The Millermatic® 251 provides a superior arc when welding 22 gauge up to 1/2 in thick metal. Engineered for performance, the Active Arc Stabilizer™ provides the most consistent arc starts in its class along with optimum weld performance in all settings.Includes the Millermatic 251, 30A spoolgun, 2 regulators, dual cylinder rack , manuals, extra tips.

 

The versatile Millermatic 251 is spoolgun-ready with two factory installed gun trigger receptacles. Adjustable run-in contol can be set for both MIG or spool gun, this easily accessable feature allows user to optimize starts to specific applications right from the front panel. Gun-On-Demandâ„¢ lets you easily change from your MIG gun to optional spool gun with no switches to flip.

 

MILLERMATIC 251

 

Features Welds materials from 22 gauge up to 1/2 inch thick in a single pass.

 

Adjustable run-in control is individually settable for both MIG and spool guns. Controlled on the front panel, this easily accessible feature allows the user to optimize starts to the application.

 

Patent-pending Active Arc Stabilizerâ„¢ provides excellent starts proven superior to the competition!

 

Gun-On-Demandâ„¢ automatically senses and activates the gun you're using when you pull the trigger.

 

Industrial, Quick-change drive rolls are easy to change and require NO TOOLS.

 

Built-in dual gun and cable holder for your MIG gun, spool gun and cables.

 

Consumable compartment and access to wire drive system.

 

Digital meters allow presetting of voltage and wire feed speed, and display settings 5 seconds after you stop welding............................

 

FREE SHIPPING IN THE 48 STATES

 

 

 

 

before I write the check ................

Id like to get feed back from someone whos used one, IVE only got a breif test, but it seems ideal,this is most likely the next welder IM buying

THOUGHTS GENTELMAN???

[mark]

I've got the 210 and it is a breeze to use. 210 does not have digital controls. I've used the spool gun for aluminum with argon gas. Not as nice as tig but I can grind it smooth and it looks OK. Smooth wire feed on both the spool gun and wire feed unit. It never gets hot and shuts down. Best of all it makes me look like I can weld. Mark

[johnc]

$2,600 for the Miller 251 and a spool gun is not much of a deal. I'm in the process of buying a 250 sized MIG welder and I've been quoted ~$1,700 for either the Miller 251 or the Lincoln 255, both with digital controls. A spool gun should run about $500 max.

 

I'm probably going with the HTP 2400 MIG welder with two regular guns, one 10' with a teflon liner for welding aluminum and one 15' with a regular liner for welding steel. If you use .035 5336 aluminum wire you should be able to weld aluminum just fine using a standard MIG gun that has a teflon liner.

 

HTP quoted me $1,300 for the welder plus I'm getting another $300 worth of stuff (upgraded regulator, extra parts, wire, extra gun, etc.).

[Guest JAMIE T]

I've used a Millermatic 250/30A set-up for the last five years. The only time I use the steel portion is for jigs and other fixturing. 8hrs a day, 5 days a week we weld aluminum. I have been trained by the best in the industry(PraxAir) to MIG weld aluminum SUCCESSFULLY. Using the 30A spool gun gun, I can make near TIG "like" welds. Very clean, beautiful heat affected zone. As John said, that is about the going price for a set-up such as that. My shop now has 4 Millermatic 250's with 30A's and a Millermatic 251 with a Cobra push-pull gun that we don't even use. In the last year we upgraded to Lincoln Power MIG 300's(pulse, pulse on pulse, etc...) with Python push-pull guns. We weld SO MUCH aluminum that Miller wants us to ginny-pig their new pulsing MIG set-up. Very few companies do "Production" aluminum welding like we do. Production is the hardest thing for welding equipment. We've had electronics over heat, 30A's are terrible for blowing tips if your not set-up juuust right. Get friendly with your local Arcet salesman.

 

Welding aluminum is not that hard. Getting quality results is. The proper aluminum weld is wide and flat, shiney, not sooty. If you look closely at the puddle, you can see the filler(wire) "pooring" into the weld. That is called a "Full Weld Spray". You should not see the filler jamming into the base metal. Called "Globular transfer". That will happen when your machine is set in the 22-23 volt range. Try to avoid this if at all possible. lower volts is ok, and higher volts is ok. When welding in the 26 volt range, your wire speed(adjusted on your spool gun) will be about 3-4. Use that for referance. I can weld 1/8" using 21-22 volts, and 2.75 wire speed. Make sure your gas pressure is up to about 40, and your tip is about 1/8" inside the cone. Try to maintain about 1/2" distance from your base metal.

 

The Golden Rule for welding aluminum is do it "Hot and Fast" get in with as much heat as you can, as fast as you can, and get out!

 

I paid thousands of dollars and have welded countless hours to get good at welding alum. We got these Lincolns and it seems like it was all worthless. With the pulse, and especially the pulse on pulse options, anyone with alittle welding back-ground can do it. You can set it so that the weld starts VERY hot, then backs the heat off for the finsh. The weld looks the same from start to finish(more or less). Even has a crater fill function(if you've welded ANY aluminum, you know what I'm talking about!).

 

That will be $2000 bucks, I accept paypal

[grumpyvette]

JAMIE T

THANKS FOR THE INPUT!!

 

BTW

 

http://www.htpweld.com/product_page/tig_welder/tig201.html

 

I was EMAILED this as a suggestion?? any input gentelmen??

[Brad-ManQ45]

I used the 251 at the local vo-tech and loved it. Ebogh that I got the MM175 and put a circuit up to the garage for it.

 

From what I have been able to gather, Miller's customer service is the best out there for us little guys.

 

I haven't heard complaints about HTP, but that other red one I've heard stories about....

 

Having trained on blue it was easy to stick with, but Miller and Hobart - both built in same factory - both have forums for everyone.

 

There is also another welding forum that you can check out:

 

http://www.weldingweb.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1

 

They just now had someone ask about this machine and got a few responses.

[johnc]

Regarding the HTP Invertig 201, I use a Lincoln Invertig 205 every day to weld steel, stainless, and aluminum. I've very happy with its performance and I assume the HTP 201 is comparable. On AC you'll get at most 160A which is fine for almost all AL welding you'll be doing on cars. Bigger AL parts (structures, trailers, etc.) will require pre-heating and patience.

[Drax240z]

Damn Jamie after what you say about the Lincoln Power Mig I'm not sure I want to TIG aluminum ever again! Hmmmmmmmm..... What do those go for anyway?

[Guest JAMIE T]

$5100 with the Cobramatic push-pull wire feeding gun. It has drive rolls in the handle, and drive rolls in the machine, so you can use a large spool(25-30 lb.) of wire instead of the 1lb spool used in spool guns. It's lap top programmable also.

 

I still prefer TIG since I can weld just about any base metal with it using Argon. At work I have a Miller Syncrowave 350. It is an absolute monster. It can melt a 5/32" tungsten down to the collet if you aren't careful. I turned it up once to see what would happen. It made this sick(BRAAAAP!) sound and the tungsten had disappeared.

 

I'm buying a Miller Dynasty 200 pulse TIG for my home garage. It's about $2500 with my big baller discount.

[Tony D]

Hey Jamie, those of us who passed through the Air Products Wierton Program might argue that "best in the business" comment!

[grumpyvette]

help me make a choice here gentelman

 

 

I did not get nearly the info I was hopeing for when I posted a question in this section, on welders,IM in the market for a new QUALITY SHOP WELDER,it must run on 220v feed current single phase, Ive used , OXY-acetolene and buzz box stick welders for years and have used MIG and TIG only on occasion, but I need more info from you gentelmen to make up my mind on which welder to purchase.(Im not spending $2000-$3500 without KNOWING its the correct tool!)

I want to do BOTH nice looking welds on ALUMINUM EFI intakes from thick to thin(1/8"-3/8") so a TIG seems like a good choice, and QUALITY not speed is important to me!,since IVE done lots of years with OXY-acetolene I think TIG will be the better choice but IM open for suggestions and IM doing general hot rod work like frames,headers,roll bars , some body work,ETC so a MIG looks ok, but not having used migs on aluminum much, Im not sure whats my lack of skill with a new welder and what just not available from that particular model, theres inverter and transformer based welders and several brands, Ill post a few links, and ID like the experianced welders to point out both the good and bad points on each as IM SURE we can all pick up some info, and PLEASE feel free to add info or other choices your suggestions, knowledge and experiance are very usefull

 

http://www.daytonamig.com/etig.htm

 

http://store.cyberweld.com/milsyn250dxt.html

 

http://www.htpweld.com/product_page/tig_welder/tig201.html

 

http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p001850.htm

 

http://www.weldingdirect.com/tig252helsys.htmlquality, repair parts availability and service counts

so figure that into the choice also!

any further input from the experianced welders on the site is much appreciated

[johnc]

As I said above, I'm very happy with my Lincoln Invertig 205. I've welded AL, SS, CroMo, Ti, Ni, and mild steel with it. AL welding on large structures may regquire pre-heat becuase you can get only about 160 amps AC out of the unit (that's plenty for almost anything you're welding on a car).

 

When I went to the Lincoln Electric Welding school all the instructors were ditching their personal Precision TIG 175s for the Invertig 205. FYI... it also works just fine on 110V and you can easily carry it around.

[Drax240z]

With an Oxy-acetolene background, and if speed isn't important at all to you, I'd be looking at TIG welders exclusively I think.

 

The Miller Syncrowave 250 (with water cooling) is what I am considering for myself in a similar situation as you. A miller dealer is close if you ever need repairs. My trusty miller 110V mig at the shop has been a real gem.

 

I have never used ESAB or HPT before so it's tough to comment. My first TIG was a Lincoln square wave 335, and it was super! (albeit a high end TIG at the time, so it had a lot of features) I have a lincoln mig (SP-135+)at home as well that has worked well for me for years.

 

Not a lot of info to go on as I haven't used the specific machines you are looking at. I've been pleased with all the Millers, Lincolns and Hobarts I've used however.

[grumpyvette]

thank you gentelman, Im still looking into my options but most guys have said the same thing,(buy a miller TIG, water cool torch setup so thats what Im leaning towards) but please feel free to coment on models ETC,

[Guest JAMIE T]

Ok, Buy a TIG. Hands down it is the most useful welding set-up available. Next, if you would like to primarily weld alum., get one with a pulse feature. Having said that, I use a non-pulsing TIG just about everyday to weld primarily alum. FWIW, I'm buying a Miller Dynasty 200 TIG set-up with water cooling. I was quoted @$2500 for the complete set-up. But that was with my "I'm the best customer you got" discount. Expect that unit to run YOU closer to $3500 or more. Check on it though, you may be able to score a deal on that also. Sometimes they will let you "test drive" on prior to purchasing it.

 

I've read this thread and I MUST say this... Some guys like to buy machines that are "racer" types. Like HTP for instance. I assure you that you local Arcet or National Welders WILL NOT have replacement parts for those machines. That is why I choose to go with Lincoln or Miller.

[johnc]

Some guys like to buy machines that are "racer" types. Like HTP for instance.

 

I'm not sure what a "racer type" is, but I own and use a Miller, two Lincolns, and I just bought an HTP 2400 MIG welder. The welding distributors I deal with are morons so I prefer HTP's direct support model.

 

If something goes wrong with the machine you get out your voltmeter and call their 800 tech line. They will walk you through a diagnosis and then overnight any parts you might need. If the machine is still covered by their 3 year warranty, everything is free. The owner's manual contains detailed instructions on how to test and replace every part on the machine. It ain't rocket science.

 

I prefer to rely on myself to repair a machine then have to work through Moe, Larry, and Curly to get a machine fixed - 3 weeks after I drop it off. I'm a one man shop so I can't afford down time.

[Guest JAMIE T]

That's a good point John. I totally agree with you. I'm glad to hear that HTP has that sort of customer support. Still, there is nothing better than being able to drive across town to pick-up tips and cones and other items that may be manufacturer specific. Even Lowes sells tips and cones for Lincoln.

[grumpyvette]

http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p001493.htm

 

http://www.htpweld.com/product_page/tig_welder/tig201.html

 

heres two choices of approximately the same price range,

ones a pulsed MIG and one a full TIG inverter welder, BOTH have thier strong and weak points

your comments on which would be the best all around choice for a custom race shop where QUALITY WELDS are MANDATORY and speed is NOT important and WHY, would you pick that choice? would be greatly appreciated

KEEP in mind that BOTH aluminum intakes and general steel welding like fabricating exhaust systems, roll cages, motor mounts, ETC. are going to be necessary, as the types of things welded

[johnc]

You're not going to get a definitive answer from a message board. Here's my suggestion, HTP, Miller, and Lincoln all have some kind of 30/60/90 day trial period. Get one of each and try them all. Keep the one you like and send the other two back. That's really the only way you're going to be able to get the answers you're looking for.

[grumpyvette]

thank you, even that advise is something that helps.