SR20DET swap vs. L28ET swap

[Daren]

Okay....I stand firm in my last post, L28ET is always fantastic. SR are great too. For my soon to be S30, NEVER will I put in a silvia motor. They are badass, yes I know. It's just not what I want, it just doesn't seem like the best option for me and what I want out of the car.

 

For clarification on SR20DET power and configurations.

 

-S13 motors began as redtop, and later switch to a black top valve color.

They do have the best flowing head, it's the low port head. Turbine was

T too small 25. The intake manifold was THE bottleneck.

-When they switch the valve covers for kouki S13, and later RPS13 that's all they changed. Just the cover of the valve cover.

 

-When the Zenki S14 was released there were significant changes to the motor.

-Head was switch to a high port design. Variable valve timing was added.

-Turbine was switched to a T28BB

 

-S15 motor was the ultimate stock SR20DET. Besting the S13 engines 210HP,

For a claimed 250. Torque was up as well. The motor is sweet. The SPECR model also has a fantastic (model specific) ball bearing turbine. Coveted in the simple and effect SR tuning circles. Nothing like making 320-350 rwhp on a stock turbine!

 

Tuning an SR is easy. Most 240SX owners take un-necessary steps in their quest for power. All of these crazy, expensive mods are not as effective as a simple set up.It is all about bang for the buck, Unless you still live with your parents!!! Basic upgrades.....The usual....front mount, Exhaust mani, Down pipe, cat back, test pipe???, BOV, T28BB, S15 injector (or larger), ROM tune and boost control is all it takes to make good reliable power. And hey it's pretty much stock. Many people make serious power with basic engine work on top of these mods. Cams, gears and what not.

 

With these simple mods an S13/14 hauls ***. Drop that in a lightweight early S30...wow.

 

 

But then again, it's not exactly cheap to tune any nissan motor. Well with the exception of the L28ET. We'll see what I end up with. But right now, I'm leaning towards a 4AGE......

 

JUST KIDDING

[tonycharger72]

Thanks for the detailed info mate,

 

I wouldnt put an Sr20 into my zed, just because there is so much room in there, why not put in a larger capacity engine, but the Sr20 is such a great little motor, the L28 is a great engine aswell,

 

Just trying to help give this Chris-280zx as much info as possible to help him make his decision,

[Guest nitr0]

to clarify: A 350 chev would never ruin a zed, as said in my first post which you replied to "Theres no replacement for displacement".... And hell no an L28 with stock internals would produce 400rwkw, at least not for very long, but you dont NEED that much power for a fast car, it needs to be setup right which requires funding in more places than just the motor

 

Also, the Silvia in Japan is like the Holden Astra in Australia. And the Z is like the Monaro. SO wouldnt you agree that if you were going to do a motor transplant into a sports car (older or newer), you would use a sports car / performance car engine? To me its like dropping an Astra Turbo motor into an old Monaro, and that feels a little weird, thats all i'm saying.

[tonycharger72]

"to clarify: A 350 chev would never ruin a zed, as said in my first post which you replied to "Theres no replacement for displacement".... And hell no an L28 with stock internals would produce 400rwkw, at least not for very long, but you dont NEED that much power for a fast car, it needs to be setup right which requires funding in more places than just the motor :("

 

There probably isnt many motors that can make nearly 580kw at the flywheel (this is what i'd estimate 440kw at the rear wheels to be) on factory rods and crank for very long without blowing skyhigh ,

 

"SO wouldnt you agree that if you were going to do a motor transplant into a sports car (older or newer), you would use a sports car / performance car engine?"

 

Yeah i know what you mean, just heard so many great things about the Sr20, my brother is putting one is his 1600 and he talks about it all the F#cking time , but i could imagine that there would have been a fair amount of work and money put into that 440 Rwkw Sr20/1600, even though it used stock Rod/crank/Tb & Plenum - im sure it wasnt just a free-flowing exhaust and removing your cats that would get you that kind of power

 

But your right, i reckon because the Zed has the room, why not stick in a much larger displacement engine than the Sr20 and go with something that is probably classified by the manufacturers as a "performance" engine, like the 2jz or the Race-Bred RB (pretty sure thats what RB stands for)engines

[Guest nitr0]

Yer exactly, the 2JZ would go hard and probably has the best internals of a cheap import motor (compared to a ferrari), an SR20DET might go ok in a 2 door older gen Z if you strip it down because the wheelbase is a little shorter (i think) and the cars smaller, but in the 280zx just put 250~rwkw and do diff, suspension, tyres etc and you should cruising a 1/4 mile in the 12's easy.

 

The guys on ozdat love the SR's to much because they make a wicked replacement for the 1600s / stanzas / bluebirds / 510's and still keep the nissan lable on it.

 

Anyway we've probably confused the s**t outta the dude who originally asked the question

[tonycharger72]

"The guys on ozdat love the SR's to much because they make a wicked replacement for the 1600s / stanzas / bluebirds / 510's and still keep the nissan lable on it."

 

Your not f#cking wrong there mate, go on on on on on about it

 

"Anyway we've probably confused the s**t outta the dude who originally asked the question :P"

 

Hehehehe, yeah, but theres lots of good info about Sr20's in this post now

[Daren]

Okay. Okay. I'm gonna throw it out there for those that don't know.

 

I love SR's. They feel so "right" when properly tuned.

 

I know that no one is bashing them....but how about some maybe new to you facts.......

 

 

In the beginings of The japanese GT300 series....JUN AUTO ( Yes that JUN AUTO, 8 sec zeroyon Silvia JUN AUTO) Campaigned a BNR32 with a SR20DET.

YES!!!! They pulled out the Famed RB26.....and did quite well in the series. It was done mainly for handling I would imagine. I think it had around 500ps.

 

 

In recent times....GT300 Teams have been doing these types of small displacement swaps. For instance....Many a GT class JZA80 Supra were running 3SGTE motors. Crazy? How could they pull out those bad *** twin turbo Straight six engines.....only to replace them with 2Liter inline four turbo motors???

 

Even on the streets......

 

There are FD/FC3S with SR, Z32/Z33 with SR, JZA80 with SR, JZA80 Supra with 3SGTE. HCR32 with SR.

 

These motors are bad ***. (Not to say anything about other options)

 

Just simple thought provoking information. Do what you will with it.

[Guest bastaad525]

From a handling standpoint, of course the SR20DET is going to be better than an L28ET. But yeah any SR20 install is going to cost way more than doing an L28ET swap, the L28ET is hands down the most bang for the buck you can get with an old Z. And since it is literally a bolt in install, it should be no problem doing it or getting it done... the only 'hard' part is the wiring, which is not even that hard, it's like four wires that need to be spliced.

 

The Sr20 is all custom so depending on where you live it might be impossible to find a shop that would do it, and when you DO, it will probalby cost a fortune.

 

I say go L28... you can still make it handle fantastically. S30 Z's are actually not that great handling of cars in stock form, so need of lot of stiffening and good suspension parts to really make them handle well either way, whichever motor is in there.

[jessejames]

I think its really just personal preference. But I'm buying up parts for an sr20 swap right now. In Japan's JGTC many of the MKIV Supras are running 3sgte's instead of the 2j's. The reason is they can get the same power for less weight and better handling. Just something to think about. Plus a smaller engine's probably better on gas. Technology is the only replacement for displacement. The 3sgte is a Toyota 2.0 turbo 4 cylinder. Check out this link

 

[240swapped]

yeah, what about the JGTC toyotas running 1.6 20 valve 4ag's?

[Gareth]

Huh? Even the BP Levins ran 3S-GEs, I can't recall any car using the 4A-GE, even the 20v... As far as I remember, none of the JGTC Supras ever ran the JZ motors. GT500 cars ran UZ-FE V8s, and GT300 cars used 3S-GTEs. [TonyD mode]But, I digress.[/TonyD mode]. (I hope Tony won't kill me for that one). Let's go back to the topic now.

 

Tony

[Careless]

Huh? Even the BP Levins ran 3S-GEs, I can't recall any car using the 4A-GE, even the 20v... As far as I remember, none of the JGTC Supras ever ran the JZ motors. GT500 cars ran UZ-FE V8s, and GT300 cars used 3S-GTEs. [TonyD mode]But, I digress.[/TonyD mode]. (I hope Tony won't kill me for that one). Let's go back to the topic now.

 

Tony

 

I'm sure Tony D will appreciate you trying to imitate him, or attempt to be like him, irregardless of what context you may have said it in.

 

[Careless]

yeah, what about the JGTC toyotas running 1.6 20 valve 4ag's?

 

perhaps you mean the formula atlantic 4AGE's.

[Gareth]

I'm sure Tony D will appreciate you trying to imitate him, or attempt to be like him, irregardless of what context you may have said it in.

 

 

Alright, that gives me some hope...

 

Back to the SR20 vs. L28ET debate - it all depends on the way the car will be used. For an AutoX-trackday special I'd use the SR20. For everyday driving, weekend drags and some AutoX events, I'd go L28ET. It's obvious that the lightweight SR20 would help the ZX handle bettter, and with bolt-on mods it should have sufficient power. It is easy to make 300 flywheel HP with just a better exhaust, fuel pump, intercooler, piggyback ECU (like PerfectPower SMT6), BOV and a manual boost controller. L28ET should be able to make just as much, while retaining much more low end torque.

 

SR20

 

Pros:

- VERY popular

- readily available

- aftermarket parts are plentiful

- many tuners have experience with them

- easy to modify to over 300 flywheel HP

- weigh as much as a feather (at least in comparison to L-gata blocks)

 

Cons:

- parts are sometimes expensive

- some custom fabrication would be required

- installation would be more difficult and more expensive

- it's a 4 cylinder - don't have to say more

 

L28

 

Pros:

- popular

- cheap

- readily available at some junkyards, and sometimes in complete (that's important) donor cars

- easy to modify (slapping in a T3/T4, decent exhaust, IC, MBC, BOV, fuel system components and engine management should be enough to make the ZX fly)

- aftermarket parts are available (though not as many as the SR20s)

- VERY easy to swap (in comparison to anything else)

- factory engine in a ZX, meaning that you can go to a Nissan dealership and buy parts for it

- easy to replace (it's a junkyard motor after all)

- durable

- it's a 6 cylinder (we all love the inline six's sound )

 

Cons:

- OLD

- heavy

- prehistoric, non-crossflow contruction originating from in 50s Prince engines (that's not a problem for me, I love it this way - it has some character, charisma, whatever you call it)

- might be difficult to find a good condition ET

- ?

 

With that in mind, I'd go L28ET all the way. I just love the L-gata engines so much, even tough I have not that much experience with them... After all, they are the original Z and ZX engines, what can you say more? The SR is a good engine, but in comparison with other engines in its class (even with Nissan's own CA18DET), it's just nothing special. Apart from the aftermarket support, tunability below some certain power level and its light weight, it doesn't really have any advantages over the L28ET to me. If I were to choose a good 4 cylinder for the Z, it would be the FJ20ET. But, with its scarce availability and difficulties in sourcing ANY parts for it, it would be difficult just to maintain it, not even tune it. That leaves the L28ET as the sole candidate.

 

Hope you'll make the right choice, Chris!

 

Tony

[240swapped]

perhaps you mean the formula atlantic 4AGE's.

thank you, i have lapses of mental failure.

[fordsunzx]

i understand the 4 cyl argument weight size... and they can make great power, but these race cars have works built beefed up engs and when each race is done they are toast-thats ok thats why they are built. for the same power level all other things being equal the larger displacement engine is more reliable, smoother[6 or8 cyl] and for the street has more torq at lower rpms.

[Guest mr.scruffleston]

thanks this thread helped me decide on the l28et, mainly because the affordability and ease of install. =DD

[Guest Avidmatt]

Well since its gunna be a DD what about gas mileage? Shouldnt that be in the comparison? Thats the only thing that hasnt been brought up lol!

[Devilcat]

Hey kids,

 

Here are some power facts and mostly JDM too. Oh to have had this off the factory floor.

 

1991-1993 S13 Silvia & 180SX

202 hp @ 5300 RPM

203 lbft @4000 RPM

Garrett T25: 0.64 A/R Exhaust, 0.80 A/R Compressor.

High port head, 370 cc/min injectors, red valve cover.

 

1994-1998 Sl3 180SX

202 hp @ 5300 RPM

203 lb/ft @ 4000 RPM

Garrett T25: 0.64 A/R Exhaust, 0.80 A/R Compressor.

High port head, 370 cc/min injectors, black Valve Cover, Flat on top.

 

1996-1998 S14 Silvia

217 hp @5000 rpm

203 lbft @ 4800 rpm

Garrett T25: 0.64 A/R Exhaust, 0.80 A/R T04B Compressor, ball Bearing, Low port head, 370 cc/min injectors, VTC Variable intake Cam, Black Valve Cover with a hump that peaks at Cylinder No .3

 

1999-2001 Sl5 Silvia

247 hp @ 5400 rpm

202 lbft @ 4800 rpm

Garrett T28, ball Bearing, 0.64 A/R Exhaust time, 0.60 A/R T04B

Low port head, VTC Variable Intake Cam, 444 cc/min ejectors, better materials in turbo and better waste gate flow design. Black Valve Cover with a hump that peaks at cylinder No .3.

[echo006]

I'm in agreement with Gareth for the most part. The final product is whats going to dictate the engine. I've lulled over what engine to use in my 260z for the past year while I took care of everything else pressing. My personal final choice has come to the SR20, but it is a really really really close call to the L28et and I may still use the L28et if I change my mind again.

 

All in all the big reason for me deciding on the SR20 is availability of aftermarket parts. Fuel economy is another factor. The SR20 (being the four cylinder that it is) is going to get better fuel economy when cruising at lower RPM. My final plans are going to involve a twinscroll T4 Borg Warner turbo making arround 400+hp and a potential of 600hp if I feel that is not enough.

 

Also, anything above 350hp starts to become a strain on the L28et (from what I understand) and becomes near aggravation arround 400hp if the motor has not been properly set up and tuned to be reliable for it. Austin (and his famous blue 240Z) is changing out his L28et for a VQ35 and his was one of the nicest L28et I have ever seen. Big Phil has made mension of being tired of trying to make over 400hp with his L28et and possibly switching over to a RB series since he had to rebuild his Holset more than once (but his frustration was understandable and I really dont think he will do it, he seems to love that L28 megasquirt).

 

But the biggest deal is there are only a hadful of people making engine upgrades for the L28et. Maybe two companies make cams for the L28et. Intake and exhaust manifolds are no go in the aftermarket with the exception of the ITB fuel injection and that expensive.

 

Dont get me wrong, I think the L28et is a nostalgic work of sexyness and sounds absolutely orgasmic. Its just not efficient enough with the power in my book.