Guest Brian260ZT Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Hey Z friends, I wanted to bounce this idea off of the collective. I want to use a 20oz aluminum CO2 bottle used by paintball guns as my surge tank. I would turn the bottle upside down, with the FI fuel pump being fed from the normal opening, while drilling/tapping the topside for return and vapor lines. Basically how SDS describes in their 'HOW-TO' http://www.sdsefi.com/techsurge.htm Anyone have any concerns? Thanks, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Is the aluminum thick enough to tap, or do you need to weld bungs to it? This is what Tim did: http://hybridz.org/nuke/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=36171&highlight=surge+tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian260ZT Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Crud... his images are blocked here at the office, I'll have to wait until after work to check them out. Is 20oz enough? Any thoughts on a 9 or 14oz? Thanks, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 20oz are plenty. I used a piece of 3 inch diameter, by 8 inches long..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 After Tim showed us his "el Cheapo Surge tank " I did some looking around and I found a guy that will make a surge tank for you for around $85 plus shipping. I found him on eBay and he was selling this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7917340846&category=33602 It looks like good quality and the welds look nice. I wrote to him and asked if he could make one to my specs and here is his reply: "Hi, I was wondering if you could make a surge tank similar to this one you advertise but for use as a fuel surge tank? You can see what I am talking about if you check out this website: http://www.sdsefi.com/techsurge.htm I would be interested in one for my current project. If you can do it, since it is similar to the tank you already make but it would have 4 fittings on it, How much would it be? Thanks for your time. David David, Yes, I can fab a tank for you. Since my tanks use 1/2" thick end caps, I can put three 1/4" npt threads on one end and 1 on the other. If you'd rather have bungs welded on the sides, I can do it that way, too. The price would be around $85.00 plus shipping. If you need it polished, it would be another 15 or 20 dollars. Let me know what you want to do! Brian" Here is his email address: fritz7987@ev1.net I hope this helps someone out there. I told him that I would share this info with the Hybrid Z list and he welcomes our business. For my project, I just picked up a baffled, fuel injected gas tank from a 76 280Z that I plan to install instead of using the surge tank and the 2 pump method. I will try this first and if it doesn't do the job, I will have this guy make me a surge tank and add it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I used the steel 240Z expansion tank as a "stealth" surge tank. No one knows it's there. Works great, absolutely no starvation, even on the track. Here is a diagram of how I used it: http://hybridz.org/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=470&fullsize=1 Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 That surge tank idea scares me Pete. How much gas you got in there, 1/2 gallon? Fire suit or not I wouldn't want to have that much gas in the cabin with me in an accident situation. It's unnecessarily large and should be under the deck IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian260ZT Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I'm pretty sure the tanks I'm looking at are about an 1/8-1/4 inch thick. I'm waiting for a relative to dig one out of storage for me. I'm hoping it's thick enough that I can just drill and tap into the tank itself. Otherwise I'll have to have the bungs welded on. Either way.. I'll be sure to photograph the whole thing. Pete: I have to agree with Jim, that looks really scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I have seen many a race car with a surge tank in the passenger compartment. I've also seen many a race car that has the fuel cell sitting right in the hatch area. The club I run with requires a metal plate to separate the tank from the passenger compartment (as you have in an stock gas tank setup). I have a metal bulkhead between the surge tank and the passenger compartment, so it passes tech inspection. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I have seen many a race car with a surge tank in the passenger compartment. I've also seen many a race car that has the fuel cell sitting right in the hatch area. The club I run with requires a metal plate to separate the tank from the passenger compartment (as you have in an stock gas tank setup). I have a metal bulkhead between the surge tank and the passenger compartment, so it passes tech inspection. I've seen it too, and if yours passes inspection that might be all that matters to you. Maybe I'm just more nervous about gas than I need to be, but the original idea of a 20 oz CO2 canister underneath is a better one IMHO. It's that whole burn unit thing... :flamedevil: My wife was working in the childrens' burn ward at a hospital here in Seattle up until a couple weeks ago so I've been a little more aware as of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillZ260 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 All these surge tank diagrams and pictures show them with return lines, what if I don't have a return line...... What I have Fuel Cell w/ no baffle (probably need to rethink this) to Holley red pump to Some carb i have to buy that will top off a SBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 All these surge tank diagrams and pictures show them with return lines' date=' what if I don't have a return line...... What I have Fuel Cell w/ no baffle (probably need to rethink this) to Holley red pump to Some carb i have to buy that will top off a SBC[/quote'] Then you likely don't need a surge tank (unless you plan to do a lot of drag racing). The surge tank idea is more appropriate for fuel injected vehicles as the high pressure fuel pumps tend to fail if allowed to lose fuel at the inlet, plus the engines are more sensitive to pressure drops. For a carby engine, the float bowls are like little surge tanks..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian260ZT Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 but the original idea of a 20 oz CO2 canister underneath is a better one IMHO. Speaking of location... My plan was to mount my 20oz CO2 surge tank under the hood. Possibly where the mechanical fuel pump is supposed to be mounted. So to be extra clear: Here's the fuel flow / locations Fuel travels from the stock tank through stock filter through the factory 260Z elec fuel pump (all at the rear of the car) through the factory steel lines to the front of the car, into the top of the surge tank. Stock return line is also connected to top of surge tank. Fuel exits bottom of surge tank into EFI pump and filter (which comes first?) and goes into the fuel rail , the fuel that doesn't exit the fuel injectors continues on to the Fuel pressure regulator and on to the top of the surge tank. So I'm essentially leaving the stock fuel system intact. Only modifications are under the hood. Sorry if I've repeated the obvious, but it is helpful for me to spell it out! Thanks, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Bolting the tank to the head is going to heat up the fuel. Not a good idea. Getting rid of the stock fuel rail and fuel pump cured my vapor lock issues, if that puts it in perspective at all. I suppose you could put it on the fenderwell. Even so, you're going to have a high pressure pump feeding your surge tank, which is not necessary. Why not just put it back by the tank and use a little carby pump to fill it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillZ260 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 float bowls are like little surge tanks..... Ok thanks, I plan on doing mostly street drivnig but the occasional track day or auto x. I will probably need to get a tank with a baffle later on but I guess i don't need to worry about this apparatus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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