jgkurz Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7925349838&category=33742&sspagename=WDVW Take a look at where the turbo is mounted. Very creative, but not the best for efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Actually, I have been looking at that system, and talked to a guy who runs it in his Tacoma. It may not be the "Best" for efficiency, but it is creative, space efficient, requires no IC, (tho there is nothing to prevent you from using one, if you want to run 15 PSI or so, which the system is capable of doing) and it enables a person who just wants a little more "oomf" to get it without adding a lot of heat under the hood, not to mention more complicated plumbing. Take look here for a little more info, and some video http://www.ststurbo.com/home I am considering it for my LSI, after some renovation here.... (widows, doors, siding, roof, new dormer, deck, hot tub, and garage. My poor Z is playing a distant fiddle, doesnt even rate a second right now) I just spent $30,000 on the house, another $20,000 to go and my Z will finally get priority attention. Good news is, most of the home improvments were the GF's idea... so with $40,000 or so spent in her column, my Z column is looking better all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarang Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 What happens when it rains?, or you drive ( accidentaly) through a puddle? Pressurized water into your engine??? That thing needs an airbox somewhere else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 That is pretty cool! A little pricey though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Sorry tannji, jgkurz is correct and this "system" has been discussed quite a lot on other boards. It'll be about as effective as an electric supercharger in an hp/$ ratio. This scam - er, umm - system, operates on the misconception that turbos spool up from exhaust gas flow. More accurately, turbos spool due to high pressure heat from hot exhaust gases (PV=nRT: high T yields high pressure to spin the wheel). This heat is intense when it exits the combustion chamber, but dissipates very quickly. Try this experiment: start your car and let it warm up. Place your hand over the tailpipe. Note the soft warm air against your hand. Now go ahead and touch the exhaust manifold. Note the instantly melted flesh. And actually, that website is good for some funny misinfo. He sites this pic: as an example of a "bad" effect of an "underhood" (redundant term) turbo. The turbo is hot. Duh. The FAQ is extra entertaining - people like Scottie and James would love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 There is an article in popular hot rodding about it this month. I'll put my turbos in the typical spot, right next to the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 but it is creative, space efficient, requires no IC, (tho there is nothing to prevent you from using one, if you want to run 15 PSI or so, which the system is capable of doing) Air flow and pressure do more for spool than heat but the idea of hanging one 15 feet from the motor is crazy. It looks like the turbo is lower than the top of the oil pan. Doesn't say anything about a pump to get the oil back up. They would like you to believe that 15 feet of tubing will cool 300*+ of compressed air but it won't or we could just run an extra 10' of tubing istead of intercoolers and have zero pressure drop. Here's some other so called benifits with the first one being a bold lie. Increased gas mileage. Unlike a belt driven supercharger, the turbo utilizes "wasted" energy leaving your tailpipe. Most of our customers get 2-4 mpg increase in gas mileage. Cooler oil to the turbo. Cool oil is better for both the turbo and engine. That's what I need, oil thta's not up to proper operating temps. Approximately 500F lower turbo temperatures. Eliminates the need for a turbo-timer, which allows the engine to run after the car is shut off in order to cool down the turbo and prevent oil and bearing damage. Denser exhaust gasses drive the turbo turbine wheel more efficiently. Built-in intercooling. Intake piping provides ~50% intercooler efficiency. There is no need for the expense, pressure drop, and installation problems associated with a front mounted intercooler. Turbo is closer to the tail pipe outlet. Provides a better pressure differential across the turbine wheel which promotes better flow across turbine. Better weight transfer. Increases traction because the bulk of system is mounted in rear of vehicle rather than up front. Less noise in the passenger compartment. Quieter wastegates, especially if vented to atmosphere. Better engine cooling capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 OK, so all the F-body owners on LSI.com that have it are idiots who dont know better? The quotes from magazine editors who installed and tested it were payed for? Kenny Duttweiler was talking out his "monkey port"? I think some people have misconstrued a couple things. This isnt billed as the bleeding edge Performance setup. At 5 PSI, you are not looking at extreme temps to begin with... and how many cars out there have run turbos at low PSI with no IC? They never claimed that the 15 feet of intake was equivalent to a high-end IC, they said that it didnt need much cooling to begin with, and the intake tubing helped a bit. The turbos used in the system are designed with this application in mind. The oil line to the turbo does have a pump... just not one that needs a hole plumbed into your pan, and yeah the oil will be somewhat cooler as it has to go thru a relatively long line, but it wouldnt be so much cooler as to cause the turbo or engine problems. As for the weight transfer, I wont argue that in a Z... if it fits, it is indeed more weight in the rear, where I will likely need it. I definitely like the fact that it isnt in the engine compartment from a heat standpoint, and it is less clutter in there when I need to tear something apart. You want to say everything there is lies, sight unseen. I am saying, I have discussed it with people who have it in their vehicles, and they like it. I dont think the majority of people installing this are looking for 11 or 10 second 1/4's.... Tho there are people doing just that.... and guess what? They have IC's, heavier duty Oil pumping, and fuel management. Just like anyone here, except for the location of the turbo. Also, I havent read about anyone having problems with the location of the intake and water.... tho for trucks there is a "snorkel" option for the wheelwell. In fact, my biggest concern would be the fact that the turbo is mounted after the CAT.... but I dont intend to have one in the first place. Did anyone follow the links to the testing done by the "Industry Types"?? Do you think that if this was all a big lie, you would be able to easily find a thread or article debunking it and warning people away? There are several that I found, but not by people that had tried it, just people who were offended by it. Some of what is written there is "marketing hype".... but it is advertising, what would you expect? http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/f/Press/October_Sport_Truck_Article.pdf This was a good read, and didnt seem to me to be claiming anything extravegant. In fact, they addressed concerns similar to some in this thread. Are they full of it too? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 That is, quite possibly, the worst turbo-charging system I have seen yet. Yes, it will increase horsepower, but don't think for a second that it is efficient or smart. $4,000 will buy you a ton of bolt-ons for the LS-1, no problem getting more than 77 hp for that kind of money. Why go through all that trouble for that level of hp increase? Also - don't believe everything you read in the mags. The system was likely a promo, at no cost. STS pays for advertisements in the mag. Do you think that they are going to isht where they eat and call it like it is - a dog? Nope. The mags are there to make money, not be objective. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 OK... I am getting the impression that most of the negative replies are from people who are offended by this systems newness and/or it being non-conventional. I dont often make my mind up on a pruduct based on what the manufacturer says.... So here is what other people are saying. LS1tech.com seems to be a very good site, not a lot of BS tolerated there, and lots of experience in the real world, as opposed to bench-racing. Based on what actual owners of cars with the STS system installed are saying, I am leaning more strongly towards it than I was when this thread started. It would appear to me that for about $6,000, I can have a very nifty 500HP powerplant that is relatively docile when I want it to be, and with IC and Methanol, can go further out on the limb than I will likely take it. Here are some links to Good Threads, from Actual Owners.... please feel free to comment. (if you read them, lol) STS users giving feedback. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223131 Track times from STS owners http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222978 Intake VS water concerns addressed http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222871 Reliability questioned (SC and STS turbos) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222393 Spam post about too many noobs wanting to know about the STS turbo system. Owners seem to think the STS website FAQ is right on the money http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223227 Good idea on running dual mufflers from the STS system http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222757 81HP and 98# torque gain from stock STS@ 4.5#'s of boost. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222102 Some customer testimonials... Obviously bought and paid for.... http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222004 This guy is replacing D1 SC srtup with 630HP with the STS system http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221625 Z71 truck goes from 16.2 stock to 12.62 with STS@ 12 pounds (slips) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220264 Great thread, lots of info and numbers from a lot of owners, alos comparisons to SC projects here. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213703 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Tannji - I'm neither 'offended' by the newness of the system or the non-conventional aspect of the installation. My point -It's very expensive for what you are getting, parts and HP wise, and it isn't efficient. Why go through all the trouble if you can get the same or more gains with intake/cam/exhaust/LS1edit? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarang Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Personally, I would rather have a Vortech with an intercooler for the same amount of money. It is proven to work. Until someone rides in a car with that turbo system to see how it works, I would still be skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossta Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 I think its funny they put a picture up of the Tacoma pulling a boat. Correct me if i m wrong but when you go to launch it wouldn't that put that filter under water. if the lift keeps it out of the water what happens when a wave comes by and the truck is running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 no one is reading the links with people commenting on the STS systems they have had running for months already. No matter, I like what I am hearing, and if you read the links, you would know why. Particualry, My point -It's very expensive for what you are getting, parts and HP wise, and it isn't efficient. Why go through all the trouble if you can get the same or more gains with intake/cam/exhaust/LS1edit? This is answered very nicely by quite a few people over in the LS1tech forums.Another point made in the LS1tech forums.... No one who has the STS system is complaining about it, (and there are quite a few now) and ALL the major talk against it is by people who dont have it. One person who does have it made the most relevant comment so far. In a nutshell, he said that you get more performance with less heat penalty at a better price than any other system delivering 5 pounds of boost. He acknowledged that to go significantly higher than 5 pounds requires spending more money for the normal hardware that other IC or turbo systems require, just as you would be doing if you went with a different system. No one claims it is the highest perfomance possible, or the most efficient. For the performance promised and delivered, this is an easier install, less costly, and has fewer issues with heat. THATS ALL!!!!! Oh, if I WERE to use this on a truck, (I am not) and I were to tow a boat (I dont own) out of a ramp.... I would probably go with the recommended relocation kit for the intake filter. But that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Okay, you convinced me. You should definitely buy this kit. You will obviously like it alot. Or you might consider the kit that I am going to make: I'm going to run a supercharger off the driveshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 belt-driven or Gear-driven? that is possibly the worst design idea I have ever heard. You should just do it the way everyone else does, and always has. Just because this is the Hybrid area doesnt mean everyone should post any old crackpot idea and expect interest.... In fact, why did you even bother to post such an obviously hair-brained idea? I would go and ask others who have that if it works, but I can tell just by looking at it you couldnt take your Z to a swamp buggy meet, alligators and eels would get sucked into that gay intake...... Oh wait, you just thot it might be a cool and novel way to do something, run with less heat, and possibly save some money in the meantime? You arent trying to run 30PSI and crack 1000HP? You would be happy with a high 12 second pass? Never mind, please disregard the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cronic Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 They work well, and for something that was made for trucks and SUV's not F-bodies. It s good, and still makes great power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillZ260 Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 I know I am not a moderator here but I have been around long enought to know that any 'crackpot' idea is welcomed for discussion here @ hybridz. So if a guy wants to put a SC on his drive shaft or wheel hub or even his heater fan, we don't put the idea down. Instead we voice some concerns if we have any and state that it is GOOD to think out of the box. Tried and true is great but we never evolve if nothing new is done. Just a few words for those listening, and for those who aren't??? I wil be getting back to work on my JTR V8 conversion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 From the "ask the seller a question" section: Q: "Can you make the turbo to boost higher (than the stock kits 5-6psi)... 15-20psi?" A: ".... you don't need 15-20psi, this isn't for a 2.0L four cylinder" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 LOL, Bastaad.... note that there are people running 15 pounds on optional turbos with STS, but that IS a quality quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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