Welders

[Guest Earl Tilton]

I just recieved my latest addition to the collection ( a 71 240 shell in pieces). Obviously theres a lot of work to do and a bit of welding. Do I have a welder? nope, not yet

 

Whats the general opinion on welder types to get? I've heard Oxy/Acet will do a superb job but I hear everyone talking about welding with everything but. I've spent a lot of time around a cutting set so I figure welding with fuel cant be that bad. Any opinion from the masses?

[Zhadman]

Welders

 

[SHO-Z]

For general auto work a MIG welder with gas shield will work best. It is what the pros use for most work. I prefer Tig on tubing and pipe. Cheap welding machines are a pain to work with and will in most cases show it in the weld.

[mtcookson]

A decent MIG welder with a 75% Argon, 25% CO2 mix will never go wrong. Its actually the only type of weld allowed for chassis repair on cars after wrecks and such.

 

MIG is generally stronger than TIG, but not as pretty. You can, however, made MIG welds look pretty good.

 

Probably the strongest point of TIG welders is they can weld thinner metals than MIG and are a lot better to use for aluminum.

 

So basically... a MIG welder would probably be a good choice. Its the easiest to use and will get you quality welds with just a little practice. Miller welders are probably the one to go with. You can probably find some good deals for them on eBay.

[jt1]

Gas shielded mig gets my vote too. Versatile, easy to learn to use, does a nice job if you do your part.

 

jt

[mtcookson]

Speaking of welding here's a good thread on welding thin metals http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=98442

 

I personally prefer MIG over flux core. The welds are definitely a lot cleaner and easier imo.

[Guest Earl Tilton]

mtcookson; I read that thread... some handy info but its also why I posted a new thread asking what kind of welding set-up to use.

 

Also... I know MIG is definatly the way to go if you're going with electric. What I would like to know is.... Is GAS a viable option for body work and would it be superior to electric. I know everyone and his brother uses electric. Mainly because its easy and "safe" but I've been hearing some pretty good things about gas and was asking your opinions. I guess I'm asking from those who've actually used gas.

[Tim240z]

Controlling heat input to the panels is very important to avoid warping, which is more difficult with oxy-acet. Not saying that it can't be done, just takes more able welding skills. I have done it, but it takes a lot more time than MIG welding, but the weld seam can be made smaller. I too would recommend MIG over gas welding, just for the ease and time savings.....

Tim

[mtcookson]

I've done a tiny bit of gas welding and would definitely go with MIG over that any day. You can get some pretty good welds that are smaller as said above... but the extra amount of time it takes to do that is just not worth it in my opinion.

[SHO-Z]

Gas Welding body panels is a lost art. The original Cobras were gas welded aluminum bodies. Some of the old steel cars were also gas welded or brazed together. If I was going to use gas I would braze it instead of welding with carbon steel. There would be less heat input and warping.

 

Use a Mig welder.

[wheelman]

On a related note has anyone here used a Henrob torch? It looks like you could get a very small flame that concentrates heat in a small area. It wouldn't necessarily speed up the process but looks like it could produce some very nice looking welds.

 

Earl,

I also recommend going the MIG route. I welded a very small amount with GAS and have done alot of glass work with a Methane torch so felt very comfortable with a flame but controlling the heat can be difficult and it definitely takes longer.

 

Wheelman

[jt1]

Earl, I consider myself a good stick and mig welder, and am pretty good at brasing with a torch. However, my efforts at gas welding have been pretty pathetic. It seems to be an order of magnitude harder for me than other welding types. Some guys are really good, but try to find somebody who's got a setup and will let you try it and maybe give some pointers.

 

In order to get a good gas weld, you have to control the heat in the three pieces of metal, the two bases and the rod, at the same time and to the same temp, just short of white where it begans to burn. To get them all just right at the same time is almost magical, at least to me.

 

jt

[Guest Earl Tilton]

Ahhh.... this is why I love this forum! Good advice from experienced folks.

 

You guys rock, thanks a ton! I'll let you know how things turn out

 

I guess I'll go with MIG for the car.... gas on less critical stuff. Too bad I cant get my 240 into my forge, lol.

[Mikelly]

I've done tig, Mig, and stick welding, along with Brazing, and Hands down Mig with 75/25 Argon is the poop.

 

I LIKE working with torches because you can work with the metal to anniel (SP?) it and get it soft to work with, and it burns the crap spray lubes off the surface really well, but unless you're forming metal, go with a GOOD mig with adjustable potentiometers... I've been using a Lincoln SP 125 For three years and I love it. Very user friendly, and will do nice welds on everything from 22 gage sheet to 1/4inch plate.

 

Mike

[Pop N Wood]

Guess I am in the minority because if I could only have one welder it would be a torch. There are a lot of things you can do with a torch that you can't do with a MIG. Like cutting off stuck bolts and heating up pieces to put them together or take them apart. Red hot metal bends awfully easy. A torch can be used to soften metal for drilling and shaping, but then heat it up and quickly cool it to make it hard again. You can weld chrome moly with a torch, but not a mig. A torch is also useful for annealing and welding aluminum. Put a layer of soot on the aluminum and when it is hot enough to burn off the soot, it will cool to a super soft malleable state. Jessie James uses a torch to weld his aluminum gas tanks. A torch will weld about anything you need to weld on a Z car. A gas outfit is also more portable than an electric

 

Here is a good site which likes torches. There is another link I like better but it is on my work computer

 

http://www.tinmantech.com/index.html

 

Two opinions of gas vs. mig

 

http://www.fournierenterprises.com/MetalQA.html#Q6

http://metalshapers.org/101/jkelly/index.html

 

As for ease of use I find it the other way around. I grew up with a torch because our old house couldn't support an arc welder (gas was the only option) Using a torch is a lot more like using a TIG welder. One hand controls the heat and the other controls the rate at which filler metal is added. This is what I like about it. If you need to weld a thin piece of metal to a thick one, just angle the torch toward the thicker piece and put the heat where it is needed. Try that with a MIG. When welding thin metal I find it a huge advantage to be able to back out the torch or the filler rod to better manage the heat and the size of the weld pool. That is one of the hardest adjustments I have had to make to MIG welding. The heat setting and metal fill rate have to move together.

 

As for pretty welds, pretty welds are not necessarily strong welds. I have watched people lay down pretty welds that only penetrated one of the pieces of steel. I have also seen metal working sites that flat out claim gas torches are the superior way to weld chrome moly. Usually get better penetration and the excess heat keeps the welds from becoming brittle. As for welding car body panels, you are going to hammer down and fill those welds anyway, so no points to the mig there.

 

But like the guys say, MIG is typically easier for the novice welder. It also does a much better job controling heat warpage. With clean metal I find it a quicker way to lay down a decent weld. There are a million reasons why professional shops all go with MIG and TIG. But for the at home shop that can't afford every tool imaginable, a torch is a good first choice.

[A. G. Olphart]

Quote: MIG is typically easier for the novice welder. It also does a much better job controling heat warpage. With clean metal I find it a quicker way to lay down a decent weld. Unquote (Sorry, I don't see how to do quotes for real).

 

Those are all key factors. I used a torch and heat dam material to weld up the holes left when pulling "Datsun" from the nose of our roadster, and it worked nicely. It is, however, a real bear to do a long seam. Many tiny tacks to hold things in place, then very short beads when the real welding is done or even curved pieces want to wander around. Flat areas-- Good Luck.