Psykovertible Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I went ahead and ordered the MSA barcket kit. Total price to my door was $238. It comes with motor mounts, trans mount and all three adapter brackets. Without geting into a debate about whether or not I should actually use these..... I was hoping that I could get some info from those who have. I tried to search and had little luck. I know that there are at least a handfull of people on this forum with the newer MSA mounts like I just bought. These are not the scarab type posisiton. they set the motor nearly as far to the rear as JTR but not as low. Those of you who have used them..... any helpful tidbits/pearls that you would care to pass along? I know that for the most part.... prep is the same as JTR and I have started that prep per the JTR manual. For further.... I have decided to sell my Muncie 4spd and get the G-Force T5 5 spd. Its a little pricy but sounds strong enough to suit without the additional headaches of the T56. As a long shot..... does anyone know where I could pickup a Scarab bell housing so I can keep hydrualics as a bolt in issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 SleekZ (zparts.com) used to have a Scarab bellhousing listed on consignment, but I don't see it there now. That part is RARE and it's going to be pricey. A simple flat bracket that bolts to the clutch linkage bosses on the SBC and hangs down has been used before. This shouldn't be difficult to fab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 no_damn_240: I have the MSA mounting kit, and while my application is a ZX, I can tell you the driveline angle is dead on. I had to modify the template for the transmission tunnel mounts but that was in 2001 and they had just started selling the ZX mounts. (Sent my modifed template to them and not sure if they made any changes or not). The engine is set back as far as it can be, but it does set a little high on the ZX. As it was, I had to massage the bottom of the oil pan for the Power R&P.. I'd buy them again.. Good luck. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I used the MSA mounts for my son's 72 240Z conversion. You can see pictures of the mounts on my son's web site below. They were easy to install. Drive line phasing was a matter of jacking the trans up/down until I got the desired angle. Then I bolted the trans mount in place being careful not to move the jack. The good thing about the MSA trans mount is that you can move it up and down in the tunnel several inches allowing a lot of freedom in getting the transmision output shaft at the correct angle. This is an important step so get an angle finder and take your time. We installed a WC T5 trans and bell housing. The shifter comes up in the stock shifter hole. The T5 BH tilts the trans to the left so you will have to trim the left side of the shifter hole a little. We used a B&M shifter that has the correct angle offset to correct for the transmission tilt so that the shifter is vertical. The MSA directions were worthless crappy copies. Email or PM me and I can walk you through the finer points of the installation such as bolting in the trans mount. Note that the engine mount with the pad welded on top goes on the driver's side to provide steering shaft clearance. Also, the MSA trans mount was designed for a 700R4 trans, but it works with the WC TM too. Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psykovertible Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 I remember reading/viewing you son's swap when you did it actually. I spent a lot of time searching forums for the photos but was searching for Ian and not Miles. Makes sense now. Do you happen to recall..... my brackets appear to made using 2 inch box tubing. in pics yours appear to be more of a rectangle. illusion or actual difference? yes the instructions are a joke. my vacuum cleaner instrucitons were much more extensive and professional. i love the MSA kit cause its so much more simple. I will likely weld the brackets down after assembly is fitted. I'll likely also make a solid motor mount to bolt to that bracket. I wanted to make an all custom set... however, i will likely bolt it in and never look back when reality comes into play. Just glad to made one step in right direction. very excited and waiting for my motorcycle to sell before I can do my motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psykovertible Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 ps. instruction said that brackets were labeled L and R. BS no marking at all. thanks fro tip on the welded peice. thats the kind of info i'll be needing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Don't forget to indent the floor pan where the clutch throwout arm will be located after the trans and engine are in. If you don't there will not be enough room for the throwout arm to move. Installation: The bolt that goes up inside of the MSA motor mount to attach to the chevy motor mount is hard to get to and align. When we did the install I left the motor mounts loose so we could move the engine around to help align the engine and transmission mounting bolts. That single bolt is hard to tighten with a wrench due to the small inside dimensions of the MSA motor mount. The trans mount took us 30 minutes, but sounds complicated: Before you align the trans and differential bolt the MSA trans mount to the transmission so when you jack the transmission up into the tunnel the mount it will be in place and ready to start the drilling/bolt-in process. Do the drive line phasing at this time before any hole are drilled. Bolting the trans mount to the tunnel requires two people. Before you start to drill mounting holes in the tunnel recheck the the drive line and differntial angles to make sure that the jack has not drifted or been moved. To locate the bolt holes after you have the driveline aligned use a small drill bit and drill through the tunnel from inside of the car where you perceive the bracket bolt hole to be. My son was better at locating the bolt holes so I watched through the shifter hole to identify when the small bit came through the MSA bracket bolt hole while he drilled the small holes. He got the drill lined up on the first or second try. Then change bits and drill the small hole to bolt size. Once you get the first hole drilled to bolt size push a MSA supplied mounting bolt through the hole you drilled. Use large fender washers on each bolt. Have a helper go under the car put a lock washer and nut on a bolt that you have pushed through the tunnel sheetmetal and the MSA trans mounting bracket. After the first bolt is in you won't have to worry about the trans drifting out of alignment. There is not enough room between the transmission and the tunnel to wrench the nut tight so I tightened the bolt from top side while my son held the nut with a wrench. Once the transmision is bolted in go back and tighten the engine mounts. Also, after a driving few miles recheck the single engine mount bolt that goes through the MSA mount into the chevy mount. We found that it had worked lose after about 2 years on the road. The MSA motor mount is made from rectangular tube stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Flash Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Great post Miles! I also have the MSA stuff and I have already been wondering how I was going to get to the bolt on the the motor mounts once I started dropping the engine into the bay. Also on the tranny mount can do you have enough room to use a small punch and a hammer to help locate the mount holes? I was thinking that maybe you could jack up the tranny as you have suggested and from the underside of the car hit dead center of the mount holes with a punch. Then you could drill the holes from inside the car using the punch indentions as a guide. I will be pulling the stock inliner and tranny when it gets warmer around here and then I am going to mock up my V-8 engine and 700R4 in the bay before sending them off to be rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psykovertible Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 well hopefully the drilling will be easy as I have a right angle drill. of course i have no air compressor anymore....... hmmm. guess i'm gonna have to scour the yard sales and get a little one to get my air tools going. d/a sander in particular. lots of surface rust to get rid of. i am gonna see if my buddy will let me use his portable sand blaster. that'll save me some serious hours and pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psykovertible Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 i love that cowl hood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Instead of a punch, how about a Sharpie marker? If there's no room, cut one short. Draw a circle in the hole of the mount by filling the area as best you can with the mount there. Remove the mount and use whatever tool you can to make a punch mark or hole in the center of the circles you drew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Remember that once you set the driveline and differential angles with a floor jack the trans and the bracket are now buried up inside of the transmission tunnel. Unless you have very small hands there is little room to move any kind of tool around between the transmission and the bracket. I got the idea from another Hybrid member back in September of 2001. I know this sounds flaky, but it works. Just use a very small drill bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psykovertible Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 you know. i had considered welding the tranny bracket into the hump. put the motor/trans in as a unit..... after its in the hole...... slide it back into the cradle.... bolt the mount to bracket...... room for this to be done you think? i guess i just want it to be as strong as possible and if the bracket was welded in it would reinforce the floor pan and would not be a piece of steel bolted only to sheet metal. i realize that it is probably fine to bolt but i am paraniod. BTW... how's the T5 holding up in your boys Z and how much HP do you think he is pushing? 1600 is steep for the Gforce T5 but the one time "bullet proof" expense may be worth it. i tend to break stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Flash Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Great idea Pete! I think that will be my method of choice. ND240, I do not know how easy it would be to slide the transmission into the cradle once it was all welded up inside the tunnel because of the angle that you would encounter. Plus if you ever had to take out the transmission you would have to pull the engine with it because the mount would be welded to the car. I would not go this rout also because I can remember having to replace my broken tranny mount on an older car I had in the 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psykovertible Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 well i fuigured that the motor/trans go in/out as one unit anyhow right? usually if you are changing the trans mount there is enough room ot shove tranny up a little for the space needed to squeeze mount in there. i dont know about a z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Yes do mount the MSA bracket to the trans before jacking it up into the tunnel. This has to be done after the engine has been lowered into the car because the MSA trans bracket will hang up on the fire wall going in. We lowered the engine into the car and bolted the MSA engine mounts into place leaving all of the bolts lose. So the now the engine is supported by the engine mounts and the engine hoist with the trans tailstock at a slight down angle to allow room to bolt the MSA trans bracket to the trans mount. Next jack the trans up into the tunnel until you reach the desired angle as measured at the end of the trans output shaft. The engine and trans have to be tilted a lot going in and under the fire wall. Invest in a Tansdapt leveler as mentioned on page 8-1 of the JTR manual. They cost around $50-$60. If you can mark the MSA bracket holes with some white paint you might be able to then lower the trans out of the way and drill the bolt holes using an angle drill. I tried this, but was not satisfied with the accuracy of my marking the holes and then I couldn't get a drill up in the tunnel. Try calling the MSA tech line. When I called I was told that the installation was covered in the instructions. I told the MSA tech that the instructions were unreadable and to send me a readable copy. I was told that those were the only instructions they send out. Actually, installing the engine and trans was one of the easiest parts of the conversion once we had a plan of attack worked out. We were expecting it to be a major hassel, but it only took about 30 minutes. If I had another Z to convert I would use the MSA mounts again. Changing the springs and shocks was the most problematic chore. Not only were the shocks rusted inside of the strut tubes, but the previous owner had replaced the left rear strut with one off of a 280Z(?) which was just a bit longer then the 240Z. Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I just went through my notes from 2001 when I started the Z conversion. I got help on the MSA kit from a Hybridz member here: Contact: 72zcar Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psykovertible Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 i have a huge question that is burning a hole in my pocket. can i use the 8" harmonic balancer with msa kits? I know it wont fly with JTR but this is higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I used a stock harmonic balancer on the SBC in my son's car. No problems. Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Flash Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 ND240 I mocked up my 350 block with the front crossmember and steering rack using the MSA mounting system. I will attempt to post a pic of just how close my 7" stock balancer comes to the rack. If the pic doesn't work you can visit my Hybrid Gallery for more pics and different angles. I also took a few with the lower pulley on the balancer. Hope this helps. with pulley without pulley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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