Cable Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Hey guys, as some of you noticed my screen name has 'BBZ' in it. That always meant I intended to install a big block Chevy under the hood, hence BBZ (big block Z). Here comes a 454. I guess I am going to be having some traction problems..... but its going to be wild and fun. I am still a few months from finishing, especially since I want my roll bar (safety/traction) and R230 (more traction/strength) installed before driving/racing it with the 454. Here's the basic combo. Bottom End: -454, 4 Bolt Block w/ARP Main Studs -Bored to 4.280" (0.030" overbore), Honed w/Torque plate -Stock 454, 4.00" Stroke Crankshaft -Stock Big Block Chevy I-Beam 'TRUCK' Rods w/3/8" ARP Wave-Loc Bolts -TRW/Speed-Pro L2465F Forged Pistons (25.7cc dome volume) 10.5:1 Compression w/119cc Heads -Moly Rings -Clevite 77 Main/Rod/Cam Bearings Up Top: -Chevrolet '049' Large Oval Port Heads, 2.19/1.88" S/S Valves, Pocket Ported -Lunati Valve Springs 73124 -10* Chrome-Moly Retainers w/forged locks and PC Seals -UltraDyne/Lunati Solid Flat Tappet Cam -Oil Pin Solid Lifters -3/8's Chrome-Moly Racing Pushrods -1.7:1 Crower Stainless Steel Roller Rocker Arms -Edelbrock Performer RPM 'Air Gap' Intake Manifold -650+ cfm Holley Double Pumper Carb (street carb) -950HP Race Carb -MSD HEI Distributor Suspension/Tranny/Exhaust: -TH350 Tranny w/Trans-Go Shift Kit -10" 3000 Stall Converter -Nissan R230 VLSD w/3.69:1 gear ratio -Stock Suspension w/Aftermarket Springs, KYB Struts -215/70/14 Tires on Stock ZX Rims -Custom Shorty Headers I have done some mockups and I will still be able to reuse the JTR SBC swap motor mount spacers and setback plates. The 454 will sit in exactly the same spot in relation to the firewall as the 383 SBC. The front of the motor will be approx 2" longer than the SBC, which actaully helps things like crossmember to damper clearence. Though it is true that a BBC weighes more than a SBC, it isn't by too much. Plus the increased power will easily offset the weight gain. I should make around 500HP around 5500 RPM and 550TQ around 3500 RPM on 91 octane gas. I know the motor will be good for mid-high 10's, traction permitting of course. I am upgrading my cooling system with a new radiator from Summit, and engine driven flex-fan. Then there is the fuel cell installation, new 1/2" fuel lines, cutting/adding a MSA cowl induction hood to the stock hood, and MSA front clip. Plus I have to get another custom made 3" driveshaft for the R230 installation. I have my hands full, to say the least. So, I am anxious to hear what you guys think? Also, if you have any questions, please ask. Thanks guys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Yo, This sounds like an outrageous project, I love it! Please do take pics of your progress, as I have always wondered how a BBC would fit with the JTR stuff. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 Yo, This sounds like an outrageous project, I love it! Please do take pics of your progress, as I have always wondered how a BBC would fit with the JTR stuff. Good Luck. The headers are the only thing that worry me. Although I am fairly certain that Sanderson's makes a header that will work. Its intended for a '62-'67 Chevy II/Nova with a BBC swap. They are 'shorty' headers, but the collector exits toward the rear unlike SBC block huggers that exit in the middle. Trial and Error, I just hope there isn't too much of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 What a brute!! Yes, keep the photos coming in, especially fitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Sounds like a scary combo is in the works. Might I suggest though with the weight of the big block being an issue why not look for a good deal on a set of aluminum heads. That would save a ton of weight in front. I am also very curious on how this will fit with the jtr parts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 Sounds like a scary combo is in the works. Might I suggest though with the weight of the big block being an issue why not look for a good deal on a set of aluminum heads. That would save a ton of weight in front. I am also very curious on how this will fit with the jtr parts.... If I was going to be autocrossing, I would agree 100% (actually I wouldn't go big block at all). This is just going to be 90% drag racing and 10% crusing car. Besides, I already got the heads, 049 GM BBC Heads, 2.19/1.88" SS valves, ported, 119cc Chambers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Yo BBZ, Once again, kudos to you on this project. I only wish I was a little closer to you. I would love to see it in person, and offer any help. Dude, you are living my dream, a Big-Block Z! Total kick @$$!! Anyway, Good Luck on a speedy progress with the Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 Yo BBZ, Once again, kudos to you on this project. I only wish I was a little closer to you. I would love to see it in person, and offer any help. Dude, you are living my dream, a Big-Block Z! Total kick @$$!! Anyway, Good Luck on a speedy progress with the Z. Thanks man, its always been my dream too. I've been collecting part to do this for so long, its kinda sad. I was searching around my storage today and found this BBC Mark IV oil pan. I'm glad too 'cause this pan goes for $150 new. I think I remember picking it up at a swap meet 10 years ago. Anyway, its a '66-'72 Corvette pan, 5 or 6 quarts, built-in baffles, trap door, screen/pickup bowl, etc. Pretty fancy stuff for a pan designed in the early '60's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Project BBZ – congratulations on finally making good on the screen name! The big block is definitely an unusual swap, and not for the faint of heart. A few questions on your choices of parts…. 1. Heads. Why the Pro Topline? Are those rectangular-port? Did you settle on iron heads because no comparable heads were available in aluminum? I have been looking for suitable cylinder heads for my 454 for about 5 years (literally), and the best choice seems to be the AFR 265 cc heads. Unfortunately, they still haven’t entered production, as AFR shifted its attention to the LS1 market right after announcing the BBC heads. The second best choice, for my application, is the Dart aluminum oval-port heads (269cc), but those have disappeared from catalogs. 2. Cam. That’s a very healthy cam for flat-tappet lobes! I’ve been looking at a “low lash†mechanical roller cam with around 0.630 lift, 240 duration at 0.050â€. 3. Intake and carb. Is yours mostly a “street†application? True, it’s a 454 in a 2800 lb car, but for running below 3000 rpm.... Anyway, I have a 750 cfm vacuum-secondary Holley atop a Performer RPM oval-port intake. 4. Oil pan. How deep is that pan? I started out with a 9â€-deep pan, stock for a Chevy Suburban (which is what the engine came out of). It hung slightly below the frame rails, with the engine mounted to the frame rails (not the JTR method). Now I have a 8†deep pan. Anyway, good luck with your swap – sounds like a great project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 Project BBZ – congratulations on finally making good on the screen name! The big block is definitely an unusual swap, and not for the faint of heart. As you might of known, I was planning on building another SBC after the 383 went south. Then I ran into a local circle track racer who found out that I had a cherry 400 sbc block. Long story short, he offered the complete, balanced short block 454 for trade straight accrossed for my BARE 400 block. After a careful inspection, I agreed. A few questions on your choices of parts…. Sure, no problem. I've broken up your post to allow easier reading later. 1. Heads. Why the Pro Topline? Are those rectangular-port? Did you settle on iron heads because no comparable heads were available in aluminum? I have been looking for suitable cylinder heads for my 454 for about 5 years (literally), and the best choice seems to be the AFR 265 cc heads. Unfortunately, they still haven’t entered production, as AFR shifted its attention to the LS1 market right after announcing the BBC heads. The second best choice, for my application, is the Dart aluminum oval-port heads (269cc), but those have disappeared from catalogs. Why Pro Topline's? Mainly price. I got a brand new pair of them to my door for $650. I dare anyone to beat that. Plus a buddy bought some a year or so ago and they look great. CNC machined out of the box. I bought a pair of Merlin's a few years ago and they looked horrorible out of the box. Casting flash EVERYWHERE. Anyway, they are rect/square port heads. I went with iron intentionally. Its been proven over and over that iron heads will make more power than aluminum heads if everything else is equal. You have to run one more full point of compression to make up the difference with an aluminum head. While it is true that a pair of aluminum heads is about 75 lbs lighter than a set of their iron counterparts. I don't think the the weight difference alone is enough reason to buy a set of heads, especially when they cost a whole lot more and make less power. 2. Cam. That’s a very healthy cam for flat-tappet lobes! I’ve been looking at a “low lash” mechanical roller cam with around 0.630 lift, 240 duration at 0.050”. The cam choice isn't set in stone. I still have to check piston to valve clearence. I like roller cams, but not the cost, low roller lifter life, and special $$$ parts to go along with. But yes, it is a big grind, I've run it before with a 454 and a set of factory large oval ported heads, I made 600 HP @ 6000RPM and 540TQ @ 3500 RPM (engine dyno, not chassis dyno). The funny part is that's not even the largest grind Lunati offers from the UltraDyne catalog. 4. Oil pan. How deep is that pan? I started out with a 9”-deep pan, stock for a Chevy Suburban (which is what the engine came out of). It hung slightly below the frame rails, with the engine mounted to the frame rails (not the JTR method). Now I have a 8” deep pan. My stock Corvette pan is just under 8" deep. I wasn't worried about clearence because my exhaust hangs lower than the frame. Anyway, good luck with your swap – sounds like a great project! Thanks, I am now waiting for my buddy to blueprint my Melling 77HV oil pump. When finished it will have exacting clearences for max efficiency and the pump will be modified so that when the oil pump bypass opens it will 'vent into the pan instead of back into the pump. This will keep 'spark scatter' from happening that high volume pumps are known to cause because of the pump working against iteself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrenp Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 i think bbz is my new idol whats more to love than a z with a big block? beet a chevy with it's own power power to wight gotta love it. bbz: since i have already started my gen 6 project. my dad just gave me a 454 thats runs today. it's in a motor home that's kinda a crap hole. but the engine is good. doesn't seem to smoke it's an older motor late 70's i think. to bad i wasn't given it to begin with then i would have spent the cash for the gen 6. i guess i'll have to sell my 300z becasue i know a big block won't work in that. just won't fit. aww crap. i can't wait for some of your swap info i think i may need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 A late 1970's 454 from a motor home will require some work to convert it into a performance engine. The block, crank, rods and balancer should be an OK foundation. But the heads are almost certainly "peanut port" (casting number begins with 236) which flow about 235 cfm at max lift. This is fine for a motor home, but not enough to support a level of horsepower commensurate with the whole point of going to a BBC. So, you're looking at heads, cam, valvetrain, intake, carb, and headers. I started out from a similar position - a 454 from a 1978 Chevy Suburban. Spent many, many hours porting my 236 heads - got them up to around 265 cfm, only to learn that my porting job weakened the heads near the valve seat area, so that when the machine shop pressed in new valve seats, one of the heads cracked. That is November 2003. Since then I've been looking for cylinder heads. Oh, and BTW, what are the flow numbers from those Pro Toplines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Hello Mr. BBZ, I am seriously jonesing for some new pics of your progress, if you have any. Once again, you are 'da man! Us wannabe's are not worthy........lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 By popular demand, more pics: Here are the heads as I got them, soon I'll have some completed pics of them: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 ......and here are the headers I plan on using, they aren't Sanderson's. I don't know who made these headers. I do know they were made with top quality steel tubing and parts. The flanges are nice and thick, around 3/8-7/16" thick, the welds are smooth and deep, and the bends are top-notch mandrel. According to my measurements, they'll fit. Soon I'll do a mockup with another 454 and some junk heads and see where I am at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 BBZ, Your header pics sure look like an oil pan to me............lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 BBZ, Your header pics sure look like an oil pan to me............lol Damn CarDomain, takes their site 48 hours to update after I load new pics into old slots. Anyway, its fixed now. Enjoy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 The headers look nice, looks like they could work. I hope they fit well for you. If they do, someone needs to figure where they came from. You get them at a swap meet? I wonder if they might be some type of BBC street rod swap headers? Anyway, Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 The headers look nice, looks like they could work. I hope they fit well for you. If they do, someone needs to figure where they came from. You get them at a swap meet? I wonder if they might be some type of BBC street rod swap headers? Anyway, Good luck. Actually my father has had them for years. He bought them from a speed-shop (Super-Shops) that was going out of business in Bakersfield about 8 years ago. He wanted them for his '59 Chevy truck that he was swapping a 396 into. Then we decided to swap out the front end with a '70's Camaro sub-frame so he'd have all the modern disc brakes, suspension, etc. So being that we went with the Camaro clip, these headers wouldn't work with any car/truck with the crossmember directly under the engine. With a little Z that's not a problem. Long story short, I was in Bakersfield on Friday and I remembered to ask him about the headers. He just handed them over with the agreement that if I couldn't use them, give them back. If they work, they'll save me $350+ I am going to bead-blast them so they are clean and semi-rough to the touch. That way the high-temp paint will have something to hold on to when I spray them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Those headers look very similar to Hooker block-huggers. If the, the driver's side should clear OK, but on the passenger's side the collector will interfere with the frame rail. This happened with my car, and my 454 is centered in the engine compartment; in the JTR method, it's shifted over the the passenger's side by something like 3/4". My solution (or rather, the solution of the guy who did the roll cage install in my car) was to notch the frame rail, then weld in a sheet metal patch. Now the collector cleared the frame rail, but the collector flange was still in the way. This was solved by cutting off the collector flange, welding in an extension to the collector, with a 90-degree smooth bend, then welding the collector flange onto the end of the bend. It's still a tight fit around the starter (I should get a ministarter), and definitely causes heatsoak problems, but clears the frame rails OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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