Guest HALLOWEEN Z Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Right now I've got a stock 350 with a 700r4 on a budget, probably only 200hp but I'm not doing to bad against mustang gts and camaros, I'm going to the dragstrip this friday to see what my times are. I've got junk 350 emissions heads on it right now with stock cam and hydraulic flat tappet lifters. I'm thinking of getting camel humps or vortechs(there the best stock heads right?). I know vortechs are better because of the spiral effect but how much better? I'm also getting a comp cams cam kit soon but not a real radical one. What I'm looking for is a medium power band motor. I know vortecs aren't to expensive but then I need the self aligning rockers, new intake, new valve covers. I've found little things add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 If you are on a tight budget, and are planning to replace the intake anyways, then the Vortecs are excellent heads. They outflow many of the good aftermarket heads. But, if you can afford it, go with aluminum to shave some weight. I have the Vortecs in my truck (71 Chevy) and they are great, but the weight on the nose of the truck isn't much of an issue... Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HALLOWEEN Z Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I already have a performer rpm intake for the heads that are on it. Definately can't afford alluminum heads. Would Double humps at least be an improvement over the heads I have now? I'm wanting to spend most of my money on a bushing kit and suspension cause its all original. I was thinking camel humps and a decent cam would get me close to 300hp. Nothing special about the rest of the motor just a rebuilt 350. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony78_280z Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I'm just tagging along on this thread to keep me posted. I have nothing of value to add, just wanna eavesdrop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Nothing at all special about the 'double hump' heads....their reputation is from really old school hot rods when nothing better was available. Nowadays, even the cheapest of aftermarket heads flow better. Save your money for some decent heads.... If you want to stay with iron heads for the cost, look at the Iron Eagle heads, or many others that are good and inexpensive.....pass on the old school stuff..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HALLOWEEN Z Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Ok I figured there was a reason more people don't use them. I may just do the cam and concentrate on suspension cause I'm out driving it anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Wait to do the cam until you figure out what heads you plan to use, which may effect your static compression ratio, and thus you cam choice. Remember, parts work best when chosen to compliment each other, rather than just putting together a mish-mash of parts....Put your pennies away and get a kit from one of several manufacturers that are desinged to work well together (Holley, Edelbrock etc all sell matched kits) Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 You are correct, even stock 882 "smog heads on a 355 sbc with a really mild cam will get almost 300HP. See http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/48778/ Cam used was 210/216 duration at .050 and .440/.454 lift. Hotrod also did a comparison on the camels vs. Vortec's vs. Twisted wedge heads, see http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/79478/. On a 383 the camels made 350HP, the vortec's almost 400 and the twisted wedge made 421. The essense is that heads alone will add alot of HP, so if your trying to crutch up old heads with cam it won't be as effective as heads alone. Getting 70HP with heads while using the same cam is great, and provides a seat of the pants noticeable difference. To gain 70HP increase with cam would probably make it undriveable on the street. I wonder what AFR's would have done in this same test?! Also noted is that the parts all has to match, this is really important. Camels aren't that cheap to fix. By the time you do valve job, install guides and new valves, machine for screw in studs and guideplates, you end up with around $400++ bucks in them not including the price of the heads. They tend to crack as well between the valves. You can buy better heads for slightly more $$ like the vortec's. and make more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psykovertible Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 i agree. bang for the buck bolt on heads....... vortec all the way. they are about 500 bucks but work great stock. u can ebay the intake for at least 50 bucks and pawn off your heads cheap too. the self aligning rockers are cheap. besides...... get the roller rockers for the 180 bucks... money well spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Yeah if you are on a tight budget then Vortech's are the only way to go. Good luck and let us know how you do at the track. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony78_280z Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Nobody mentioned "getting head work done". "Planed, ported and polished" and all that stuff. I have no clue as to what that is all suposed to do, but hows about somone chime in on that info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 If you want to look at buying a complete kit at once, check out Scoggin Dickey for a complete Vortech kit including everything to bolt the heads to an engine at http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2172/SDPC-Vortec-Cylinder-Heads-and-Head-Kits.htm . This seems to be a good price. Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 You can mill, port, cc, polish, etc the heads, but unless you really know what you are doing and have a set of inside snap gauges, your really kind of pissing in the wind and may make a set of unbalanced flowing heads, maybe make more power, maybe make less. Bowl porting or pocket porting underneath the valves for about an inch will yield the most improvement on stock heads. There are some diagrams on how to do it correctly. A cheap set of inside snap gauges will help you get them all the same dimensionally which helps a bunch. Milling increases compression, but with today's gas, that is a limited issue as too much causes more problems than it's worth. If you angle mill then you have to spot face the bolt faces so they are parallel with the block otherwise you can break a head bolt. Also it changes the intake mounting surface angle and that has to be milled as well. Polishing the ports and chambers is good to remove roughness, improves flow and suppresses detonation by removing hot spots in the chamber. No big HP gains there, but it all adds up. In the old days, all we had was camel's, they work good, you'd be suprised, but you'd be even more suprised with a set of AFR's. I've done what your doing, too much with too little cash, only to wish I'd waited and done it better only later. Wait, save some dough, do it like you want, you'll never be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrenp Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 i have set thats in the for sale section, i was reading an artical and they claim that they have more profrmance potential than most gm heads if you do nto believe me here's the number 14011034 they are bow-tie heads!! i'm selling them for my cousin i should hopfully get the pictures to night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony78_280z Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 You can mill, port, cc, polish, etc the heads, but unless you really know what you are doing and have a set of inside snap gauges, your really kind of pissing in the wind and may make a set of unbalanced flowing heads, maybe make more power, maybe make less. No... I was talking about paying someone else to do this. I'm not that skilled. What would be the costs for having the work done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HALLOWEEN Z Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Probably go with vortechs then, I didn't realize they offered that much more power. I'll decide track day if I'm going to do heads or suspension next. I must say that now that the motors broke in and I'm pushing it I'm really impressed with the stock motor. The first time I really got on it about a week ago I saw a guy with a 300zx and his friend in the car with him(I know there not that fast) My car chirps going from 1st to 2nd under light throttle because of the shift kit and he got on it and he was coming on strong but when he was even I floored it and he didn't even get around me!! shifted back into first then to 2nd and sidestepped a little and left him like nothing. I had a huge smile on my face even though it probably wasn't a turbo or anything. I raced my friends mustang gt that runs 13.7s. I get a great start but when I go to third he starts gaining ground fast. Could have a lot to do with my 500cfm edelbrock. He'll woop me at the track but I think it'll only be a month before I get the priveledge of having a sticker on my back window that says "I break horses" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony78_280z Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Could have a lot to do with my 500cfm edelbrock.Could very well, a 500cfm is gonna have alot lower maximum rpm, but quicker response. The 500 is probably alot more fun on the street though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 OK...I haven't found a definitive answer via searching...so, I'll add to this post: What do you guys think about the Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads? My engine is basically bone stock from a '77 El Camino. It was rebuilt to stock specs a few years ago and doesn't use any oil/smoke. So...I was thinking the easiest way to get a bit more HP would be through the heads...I already have an Edelbrock performer intake (will be replaced with the same intake, but, EGR version soon) My thoughts are to pick up a set of Edelbrock Performer 64cc chambered aluminum heads ($1019/pair from Summit) http://www.summitracing.com/catalogs/bigbook/2005/julyaug/132f.html Now, because of emissions, I need to keep emissions provisions and be able to pass maximum 6 cylinder emissions (shouldn't be too much of a problem, unless I decide to go crazy with a cam) Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaparral2f Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I got a set of58cc L98 alum heads fuse for $250 spent $300 lto get valves ground , ported and polished. They give me a compression ratio of 10.5 with flat tops. Haven't dynoed the engine, but it seems to run pretty strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 http://www.dw1977.cz28.com/photo2.html http://boosted.envy.nu/articles/porting1.htm http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/95518/ http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/head_flowdata.html http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/41598/ http://www.kendrick-auto.com/head_flow_figures.htm http://www.malcams.com/legacy/misc/headflow.htm http://www.topher.net/~bearman/gmheadcomp.html http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html http://www.geocities.com/z28esser/headcomp.html this might help 1) open throat to 85%-90% of valve size (2)cut a 4 angle seat with 45 degree angle .065-.075 wide where the valve seats and about .100 at 60 degrees below and a .030 wide 30 degree cut above and a 20 degree cut above that rolled and blended into the combustion chamber (3)blend the spark plug boss slightly and lay back the combustion chamber walls near the valves (4)narrow but dont shorten the valve guide (5) open and straiten and blend the upper two port corner edges along the port roof (6) gasket match to/with intake and raise the port roof slightly (7) back cut valves at 30 degrees (8) polish valve face and round outer edges slightly (9)polish combustion chamber surface and blend edges slightly (10) remove and smooth away all casting flash , keep the floor of the port slightly rough but the roof and walls smoothed but not polished. (11) use a head gasket to see the max you can open the combustion chamber walls (12) blend but don,t grind away the short side radias http://www.ws6transam.org/ported.html http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.shtm http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/buildup/plenum/ http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us110128.htm http://www.diyporting.com/Shrouding.html http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb120121.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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