john kosmatka Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 If I move the lca pivot point up .750" will the stock, tc rod, and tie rod ends, steering nuckle work correctly, or will I need to do some modifications to them. So far from some searching it seems like when moving the pivot point up you only need to grind a little off the control arm so it moves freely is that it, or is there more to the story.. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Nope, that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kosmatka Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Sweet! thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kosmatka Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 But if you choose to move them .750" out also then you have to remove the kink in the tie rod ends correct? Is there any thing else involved in this modification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 If I understand your question (the slight bend in the tie-rods) correctly, then the answer is no. This arm could have any number of shapes, the true centerline of the tie-rod is from pivot centerline-to-pivot centerline, regardless if there is a 90º bend in it, a loop de loop, or a plain ol' straight rod. Bends will make no difference. Now, you will have to lengthen the tie-rod ends by screwing them out, and 3/4" is a good bit of length (but I do not remember what the total thread depth is to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I don't have a direct correlation, but isn't .75" out like a 3º camber change. I've got one of my camber plates right in front of me, and it only adjusts ~1" total. The rule of thumb on the tie rods is you want 1.5x the diameter of the threaded part of the inner tie rod (12mm I think) in the outer tie rod. So if 12mm is correct you want 18mm threaded into the outer tie rod. I don't think there is enough room for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kosmatka Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hmm, not sure If I worded my self correctly, I was reffering to moving the pivot point of the control arm up and out the .750", not the tie rod itself. In turn I was asking, how much moving the pivot point up and out .750" would relate to the length of the tie rod end. I remember reading a post where a member said when he relocated the pivot poing up and out .750" he removed the kink also, although he didn't specify why. Thanks for the help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I just did this LCA mod but went up .750 only. Maybe others move the pivots out who don't have adjustable arms to dial more negative camber? But yes to what degree do you end up with? Just a thought as I am sure there are other geometric reasons for this. Maybe that guy straighted those tie rod arms as to move the rod end ball joint outside more for a longer tie rod arm to thread into? Though straightening the arms I cant see picking up only a few threads if that. Just my 2 cents worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hmm, not sure If I worded my self correctly, I was reffering to moving the pivot point of the control arm up and out the .750", not the tie rod itself. In turn I was asking, how much moving the pivot point up and out .750" would relate to the length of the tie rod end. I remember reading a post where a member said when he relocated the pivot poing up and out .750" he removed the kink also, although he didn't specify why. If you move the control arm out .75" and then the front wheels will be severely toed in. So you need the lengthen the tie rods to match the control arms, and then the question is if there are enough threads to do so, which was the issue Terry raised. I'm sure the other guy took the bend out of the outer tie rod to lengthen it, but like buZy said, that might not be enough. I'm still thinking that moving it out .75" is a hell of a lot, and you might get more negative camber than you bargained for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 If my trig is correct, based on a 22" strut length, the 3/4" movement would net a 1.95º camber change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Man I wish my math was better. I got a B+ in trig... the 4th time I took it. Thanks for figuring that out Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 If possible, try to use camber plates to get the camber you want/need. As has been posted above, using the LCA inner mounting point to gain significant amounts of camber creates other issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 LOL Yea I failed trig. hehe.. Now I just use the handy CAD program. LOL I think the other member moved out .750 to better line up the LCA pivot with the rack pivot? Never bothered fully researching that option... and to what advantage. The only place I am racing to is.. the parts store. hehe Just raised the LCA .750 to lower the car, having the arms in a more natural stock position. A note, also using adjustable arms and upper camber plates which to me these options are needed to recorrect changes of the LCA relocation. I'm facinated with this subject as everyone always has a different approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kosmatka Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 Thanks for the help guys I think I found the answer I was looking for. I think I just may leave them alone, since the way it seems most have done this mod is just a good guess. Ill just wait till later on to dial the car in more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 It may not be that difficult to find longer tie rods that would work or to make a 1" thread-on extension for the ends of the rack inside the inner tie rod ends....effectively extending the tie rods reach. What about using heim joint tie rods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 It may not be that difficult to find longer tie rods that would work or to make a 1" thread-on extension for the ends of the rack...effectively extending the tie rods reach. What about using heim joint tie rods? The problem with heim joint tie rods is the tapered hole that is built into the steer knuckle. The most common way to get around that is to drill out the steer knuckle to 5/8", then run a 5/8" outer rod end. Then the issue becomes attaching it to the stock inner tie rod. I'm not sure, but I seem to remember that the stock inner is 12mm x 1.0 or 12mm x 1.25 threads. Easiest thing to do would be to get a piece of 1" hex aluminum or similar and drill and tap one end for the rack, and the other for the rod end. Not exactly an easy job, but doable. The other major benefit here is that you can then fine tune the bumpsteer at the knuckle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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