Camber Ajustment (Already searched)

[Guest Jayru]

Anyone have experience with this kit offered by MSA?

 

http://www.zcarparts.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=PSDC08

 

Since adding new 15x7 Rewinds, my car now tracks the road while driving. And since i plan on using the 1" Tokico springs soon, the problem will only get worse. Since z's have no camber ajustment i need something, But I don't want solid ajust bushings because this is a street car, so Arizona Z arms are out as well (To expensive also). I'd rather not hack up the strut towers either with weld in plates.

 

Let me know if their's an easier way. I have a 72 240Z.

 

Thanks,

Jay

[peej410]

have you had your car checked to see if the camber is off? i find it hard to believe that just adding wheels would change the car enough to make it track funny

[Guest Jayru]

I would think the same thing, but she does track hard. I went from stock 14x6? 195 75's to 15x7" 225 50's so their is quite a difference. I can literally see the tires pointing in as well, when they werent before.

[Pop N Wood]

I run two sets of wheels and tires that are the same as the ones you listed. My street tires are stock 14 steel wheels with I think 195 70's while my autocross tires are 225 50's on 15" Riken wheels. I have never noticed anything adverse in the ride with the autocross tires, other than feeling more bumps from the lower profile tires. Not sure what you mean by "tracks the road".

[tannji]

I think he is referring to the tendency to follow the grooves and traffic wear in the road surface. One of my old Z's did this as well with larger front wheels and tires. I went thru the suspension and new bushings helped a bit, I think bump steer correction helped too, but I never completely got rid of it. I was told at the time that the tread pattern on my tires was a factor as well.... never got a chance to verify that though.

[peej410]

wider tires always will do that, which is why i was skeptical, look for worn bushings. in my Z i eliminated the rack bushings completely by making custom clamps out of steel to hold the rack firmly in place. even with urethane pieces it still moved left to right an 1/8th inch which is just too much for me. but if youve got too much camber id suggest checking all your bushings first to make sure they are in good order, theeeeeen consider modifications

[buZy]

DP products part number 204-1070

No cutting or hacking the car

Cheaper than azc

But more expensive than msa

Only works with 2.5 ID coilover spring though......

These plates and those msa parts are the only designs I have seen that don't hack the car up.

 

http://www.designproductsracing.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=513

[CruxGNZ]

Those look identical to EMI Racing's camber plates seen here .

 

!M!

[johnc]

Wow!

 

EDIT: Ooops! I guess my Wow confused people. I was Wowing the $185 per pair price of the DP camber plates...

[johnc]

I was really surprised by the price Don is charging for the camber plates ($185 per pair) so I made a couple phone calls. Here's the differences between his plates and the EMI Racing camber plates (at $300 per pair):

 

EMI uses Mil-Spec monoball bearings.

EMI uses all stainless mounting hardware and spacers.

EMI camber plates are manufactured from 7075 alloy aluminum.

EMI camber plates use roll tapped threads (cut threads strip easier).

EMI camber plates integrate the upper spring perch with the camber plate.

EMI camber plates use Torrington bearings to eliminate spring wind-up.

 

Is all this extra worth the additional $115 per pair? Its up to you to decide.

 

BTW... IMHO camber plates are overkill for a street car and the problems mentioned at the start of this thread have more to do with the wider tires then camber.

[randy 77zt]

i had some yokohama avs size 205/60-15 on 81zxt wheels that would do this.when i wore these out i started running used tires for street(i worked at a car dealer) and kumho track tires for track day.when i got rid of the avs the car tracked normal.i aligned the car myself on $45000 hunter alignment rack.

[240Z2NV]

johnC, I respect you a great deal..so I throw out this follow-up question to your last post on this thread. Do you think that all aftermarket/custom 'adjustable suspension' measures are overkill for street driven Zs? Thanks...sorry if this seems like a hijacking.

[johnc]

Do you think that all aftermarket/custom 'adjustable suspension' measures are overkill for street driven Zs?

 

If the car never or rarely sees an autocross or a track then yes, I do think adjustable LCAs, camber plates, and coil over kits are overkill. A perfect example is John Williams. He had a 240Z that was 90% an autocross only car and he didn't have camber plates, coil overs, or adjustable LCAs, yet he was very fast in BSP locally. Plus the car was reasonably comfortable and quiet on the street when he was driving it to and from events.

 

You can make a 240Z handle very well on the street without resorting to all the adjustable components. Now, I'm not trying to discourage anyone (remember, this is HybridZ!), I just feel that for a street driven 240Z your handling money is better spent making sure the chassis and suspension is in perfect condition then dropping thousands on coil overs, camber plates, and adjustable LCAs.

 

I know this sounds funny coming from me (I didn't bat an eye spending $8,000 on Penske shocks for my 240Z) but I'm pretty conservative when it comes to street modifications.

[Guest Jayru]

Believe me, i'd like to spend the least ammount of money i have to. But the tracking problem does exist, and it's not going away, so i need to find a viable solution.

 

I have had many cars over the years with many different tire sizes/configurations. I've never heard of/had a 225 size track just because of width (Their really not that big). The Control arm bushings are ok (Cracked but not non existant). And i can see the tires pointing in (They weren't before, your guess is as good as mine why now?) But in my book that means it must have too much negative camber no? And since the Z has no camber ajustment, camber plates are my only option no?

 

Am i missing something here?

[buZy]

How about this idea....just maybe...

Worn out steering colum u-joints. There is two of them between the steering wheel and rack and pinion. Also too is an 'isolator' that looks like a typical 3 inch round rubber donut near the upper u-joint. That too gets loose/soft/worn over time.

Have you checked these three areas for wear and or movement??

Undesired motion in those jointed intersections would be magnified at the steering wheel outside diameter and may be part of this tracking issue.

[Guest Jayru]

I'll inspect them when i get under the car tomorrow. It's worth a shot.

 

Thanks,

Jay

[johnc]

I have had many cars over the years with many different tire sizes/configurations. I've never heard of/had a 225 size track just because of width (Their really not that big).

 

Hear it now: tires of that size increase the 240Zs tendency to tramline (follow road imperfections).

 

The Control arm bushings are ok (Cracked but not non existant).

 

Replace them, they are bad if cracked.

 

And i can see the tires pointing in (They weren't before, your guess is as good as mine why now?)

 

Which part of the tire is pointing in? The top, the fronts?

 

But in my book that means it must have too much negative camber no?

 

What is too much? 1 to 1.5 degrees negative on a street car is actually a good thing and won't noticeably increase tramlining IF THE REST OF THE SUSPESNION IS UP TO SPEC.

 

And since the Z has no camber ajustment, camber plates are my only option no?

 

No. Offset lower control arm bushings are another option.

 

I think your issue is a worn front suspension and wide tires. I suggest you replace tie rod ends, steering rack bushings, TC rod bushings, LCA bushings, and ball joints then get the car correctly aligned.

[Clifton]

I would guess your problem is with your toe setting. Even if you have the ride hight set really low I don't know if you can get enough camber in the front to cause wandering.

 

Do the MSA camber plates allow adjustment without removing them? I can't see any slots on them.

[Guest Jayru]

I would guess your problem is with your toe setting. Even if you have the ride hight set really low I don't know if you can get enough camber in the front to cause wandering.

 

Do the MSA camber plates allow adjustment without removing them? I can't see any slots on them.

 

That's why i wanted some feedback on them, i'm not sure.