EvilC Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 **** I DID SEARCH BEFORE I ASKED ***** Ok guys I am in the planning stages here of the ls1 swap. I know for sure I want a 01 and up ls1. I am going to be using Johns LS1 kit. The area where I need to learn more about and ask questions is sups/ rear end. Is it better to go with a r230 vz r200 for an ls1 swap? The pros and cons of going with either rearend. How much more of a hassle is it to use the r230 and is it worth it? I remember reading a thread that had a debate on the different types of r230 and I will have to search and read it again. I know this maybe a stupid question but most of the results I got were from last year threads and I was just wondering if anyone had updates. Pic of my 73 240 I picked up this week is coming. Thanks for all the advice about starting with a clean shell and not the rust bucket I had. PS... how do you guys put the faces in the thread...example hitting the other face over the head.. =) Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Don't know why the rear end would be any different for the LS1 than the LT1 or first gen SBC. The advantages of the R230's are strength, can find LSD version in JY's and can more readily do the CV swap. CV's are *generally* considered stronger and handle more extreme angles than the U joint half shafts commonly available for the R200 and R180's. I am not sure what the availability of gear ratios are. The disadvantages of the R230 is more work to install, much heavier than either the R200 or R180 and have less advantageous half shaft lengths (angles?) than the R180. CV's can be linked up to the R180/R200 with relatively inexpensive adapters. BUT, even though it is stronger, the weak link in an R230/CV rear will still be the stub axles. Ross at Modern Motorsport has billet stub axles that are suppose to be the strongest stub axle available (arguments anyone?). But this problem is common to the R180/R200/R230 set ups. The question you need to ask is how much strength do you need? It is commonly believed that the weak link in an R180/R200 is the spider gears. Spinning one tire eats them up and will make them fail. Many feel this can be eliminated/reduced by using an LSD of some sort. Options are a welded diff/spool (not advisable for a street car), a 4 pinion LSD (Power Brute makes a $550 one for the R200, not sure of the availability for an R180), or a $1600 (or more?) Quiaffe ATB rear (have both the R200 and R180 models). The quaiffe/LSD have different attributes and have been discussed in great detail in past threads. You could also search for a factory LSD unit out of a JY, but most people know what those are worth and they may require a rebuild anyway. With a near stock LS1 that isn't going to see pro stock type racing, you should be able to get away with an LSD R180 and save a good bit of weight and work. For more radical build ups, an LSD R200 should give you all the rear diff you will need. In either case you may consider CV's and stronger stub axles. Beyond that, or for 10 second passes, you could go R230 or you may want to consider a solid rear axle (Ford 9" or 12 bolt etc.). I think the biggest advantage of the R230 is availability. Score a deal on an LSD R230 with CV's and you have a relatively cheap route to a very strong rear end. I am sure others will chime in if they don't agree with the opinions above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Unless this will be a car that is used at the drag strip ALOT, I would go with an R-200. This is from the guy that has been runing the r-230 longer than anyone else here. I've used the car extensively on road course events and it works great but it is not needed for the stuff I do. The car I'm working on now, a dedicated track car, will have an R-200 with a quaife or nismo lsd. My initial reason for doing the swap is that someone told me it would not work. That and I was looking for a cheap option for an lsd. I found out that swap is anything but cheap. It would be easier and cheaper now because Ross and others make the parts to adapt the CV's to the stub axels and Dave at Arizona Z makes a nice mustache bar that is drilled for the R-230 and will soon be making a rear brace that will allow you to run the finned cover that comes on these diffs. I'm not trying to discourage you from doing the R-230 swap. If that is what you want or need (drag car) then have fun and go for it. Other wise the r-200 would be my choice. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 I've got over 15,000 miles on my LS1 with the 3.70:1 LSD R200 behind it. It has been driven fairly hard and made several runs down the dragstrip as well as two hours at Texas Motor Speedway with no problems at present. Again - just depends on what you want to use it for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 OK, the car basically will be a weekend car that I will street race once in a while. Based on the info you all have said the r-200 with lsd will be all I need. I am just trying to get all the parts together that I need and keep looking for a deal. I am guessing here a 400+hp ls1 engine with a 100 shot of nos is my main goal. Basically all of my questions are geared around that. I am pretty sure I know of a car that I may be able to get a free r200.....77 280 manual. Should I be looking for something like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33731&item=7969089258&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW OR Should I get a r200 out of a 280z and buy a lsd unit for it......or search for a rear end out of a newer Z meaning 80's/90's model that may have a lsd rearend? Thanks everyone for the quick response. I am pretty sure I will hit this thread again for more questions......I promise I will search before I ask! Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Infiniti Q45 R200s are VLSD, basically as stout as an R230 from a 300ZXTT, and much more plentiful. Do search for "Q45" as well, PLENTY to read. Many 400 hp Zs have used Q45 diff with great success. The R230 is bigger (case), and has different ratios, otherwise they are the same in terms of benefit. EvilC, where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maichor Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 The only disadvantage of the Q45 R200 is that it is the short nose variety and you will have to fabricate a front mount. However, you may be able to buy one soon. I think Ross was working on an R230 front mount, but I don't know if he has produced that part yet. Anybody know of a front mount currently available. There wasn't one when I did my R230 swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Of all of the things that I've had to 'fab' for this project, the front diff mount was BY FAR the easiest........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 I am going with a R-200 out of a '94 Q45. Front mounts and CV's I will be reading more about and get a better understanding of what everyone is speaking of. Thanks everyone for the help...please dont stop. More is better! lol Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 The Q45 diff has 3.54:1, so be mindful. It won't be as 'fun' for dragging; but, I believe better all around for driving freeways, etc. ...especially with gas prices :~( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 The Q45 diff has 3.54:1, so be mindful. It won't be as 'fun' for dragging; but, I believe better all around for driving freeways, etc. ...especially with gas prices :~( With 350+HP on tap, even the 3.54:1 is a handfull! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 LoL tell me about gas prices.....but I live right by the boarder of NJ and gas is always 20 - 40 cent cheaper by the gallon. Which diff do you guys think is the best for dragging....and top end speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 "Dragging" and "Top End Speed" are opposite ends of the spectrum...you get one or the other, or compromise in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I have the 3.70:1 LSD and there are many times I wished I had the 3.54 - even the 3.36. The lower numberically ratios really don't do didly for cruising since the 3.70 is turning 1,500 RPM at 60 mph with a T56 in 6th gear. They sure help in 1st and 2nd though for getting the power down and controlling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted April 21, 2005 Author Share Posted April 21, 2005 TIM240Z When you say the 3.54:1 will be a handful, you mean it is hard to get the power to the ground and not good on gas? Guys I guess I really need the ratio best for 1/4 mile and here and the a mile run. The higher the ratio...the worse on gas and better for 1/4 mile? Or vice versa? Thank you for all the help and I am keeping track of all the info in a word document and next time when a newbie ask these questions, I got it. I guess from what I have read so far on the site is that in a 1/4 mile run I would never really get to 6th of course is for freeway driving. I dont plan on driving the car everyday at all, so I dont mind it being alil rough to drive. I guess it really comes down to I have to get the "best" combination of < r-200 : lsd : ratio:> Thanks Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maichor Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 I guess I would have to know what else you are doing to the car. Are you going to run tall, fat, sticky tires with flares or going for the sleeper setup? My tires are big and fat, not that sticky and I find that putting power down is not that difficult on the street. True, I can't just dump the clutch at 5 grand and expect to hook up . . . but still with a little finesse I think the 3.7 is a good way to go, especially in a manual car. I have an R230 from the 300zxtt. On the other hand. . . If you are going to run steet tires of a smaller diameter (stock or near stock) or an auto trans I would go with the 3.54. One other consideration is that the more teeth on a ring gear, the smaller they are and the easier they break, then again the R230 is a larger ring gear than the Q45 R200 so it kind of balances out. I just have had that experience on big 4X4's. But, to my knowlege, nobody has blown up a Q45 R200 on this board yet. Anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted April 22, 2005 Author Share Posted April 22, 2005 WHEELS: `Watanabe R-Type 16x9 w/ -13 offset (Front) `Watanabe R-Type 16x9.5 w/ -19 offset (Rear) Those are the wheels I would like to have on my car. I know they are wide and should have enough contact area to get power to the ground. I am guessing from all the info here..... R-200 3.7:1 lsd would be the way to go.....That would be out of a 280zx turbo right? I hope no one is getting mad yet=). All the input is great guys and I really am learning here. Anyone see a problem with the wheels I want to get? Another member here already has them on I know but I do like. Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z2NV Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 With all of the hard driving in your plans, that diff is probably the weakest, structurally, of the three that you were considering... The wheels, the only 'problem' is availability. Aren't they incredibly scarce, or do I have them confused with another Watanabe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted April 22, 2005 Author Share Posted April 22, 2005 The wheels not to sure about....I was told I have to order them frm Japan itself. As for the diff I guess the 3.7:1 from a 280zx turbo weakest of the three....can you explain why it is and what makes another stronger from another? Thanks 240z2nv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.