Close...

[Tony D]

UPDATED AT CURRENT BOTTOM OF THREAD

Close to wrapping it up and giving in to something that I will get support with...

Changed the CAS today, and that's not the problem, does the same thing as it was with the old one.

Now I realize that the thing is giving a random injector pulse every three seconds after the engine dies...

 

It's been December 2002 since I started playing with this sh*t, and I've about had it. I want to drive the car (more importantly, my WFIE wants to drive it), and helping other people get numberous cars going doesn't help my enthusiasim for the damn thing. I am pretty tolerant of snags, and working through them, but this is getting ridiculous.

 

If I wanted to make a flying magnet trigger setup to make a standalone system work, I could have done that with a Tec 2...

 

And at least I know it wouldn't give me these problems.

 

I really am worried about the randomness of the failures, and really don't think that converting to the 82/83 CAS system will make that fear go away. I need something to drive cross country, and this system is not giving me that confidence factor any longer. It makes me feel like E-Baying all three of them (the fried one, and the unmolested one still on the shelf)... and using the proceeds to get a real standalone system. I really regret not taking up that one guy on the TEC2 system three months ago. At least I've personally made one of those go before...

 

I really am sick of this B.S., and venting obviously, but DAMN WTF is going to make this thing work???

 

I realized today all 11 posts I have initiated have been due to MS problems I have been having. Sickening, really sickening.

[mario_82_ZXT]

Don't yell at me for my stupid suggestions, after all you were the one who helped me get mine running

 

Maybe try loading older code on it. Or maybe do the opposite, run MSnS-E.

 

Did you build the units yourself? I know the MegaManual talks about boards randomly failing, one cause being the soldering flux that isn't washed off after the board is assembled.

 

You said you have an unmolested one on the shelf, maybe try using that one.

 

Also, MegaTune has given me problems with corrupting my configs, I don't know if your running MSnS or the Extra code, but the newer MT is supposed to be able to control the spark side of MSnS without using the other software. It didn't work for me, but maybe it will for you.

 

Don't give up yet, you and Moby are the most helpful and experimental MegaSquirters for us Z guys,

Mario

[Tony D]

Beware of thinking the MT is the thing corrupting your stuff!

My old laptop was the problem! When it went in to the shop for repair, I got a new motherboard, touchpad, keyboard, motherboard, COM bus.....

 

It was randomly rewriting my stuff...

 

Been there done that. Can't figure it out, and getting tired of trying!

 

I could load the files again and see if that helps.... But who knows why it got corrupted. I am to the point where I don't want to have to drive around with a dedicated laptop to reload my software on the chance the system will corrupt itself again...

 

I am starting to lean towards the "It should be more stable" camp. This is ridiculous!

[randy 77zt]

i bought a megasquirt unit a month ago but havent run it yet.motor is apart.will be using a hall sensor and magnets to fire it though.hopefully it will work but i am not a computor geek and moving files around and reprogramming ecms doesnt excite me.since i work as a auto tech my mind sees dollar signs when my time gets wasted(due to the flat rate pay system).was going to buy a sds since they have enough faith in it to run experimental airplanes on it.when i down load megatune i cant find the correct version for mss-e but i will work on it more.working on cars isnt a hobby for me-car must be able to run 100+mph for miles with no maintenence.hopefully the mss wil work.

[mobythevan]

I hope if you change to another ECU that you don't become a big opponent of MS. I wouldn't imagine that chagning to an 82/83 dizzy would help like you say. The problem must be in another area. Wish I could help more, but I'm stuck in Colorado.

[Bernardd]

Jeffp has something lying around that would work for you.

[Tony D]

I hope if you change to another ECU that you don't become a big opponent of MS. I wouldn't imagine that chagning to an 82/83 dizzy would help like you say. The problem must be in another area. Wish I could help more, but I'm stuck in Colorado.

 

It would be illogical for me to become any sort of "opponent" since the record obviously shows success for everyone else.... but me!

 

Far be it for me to throw stones at the MS forum, but when I went there, the help I got was FAR less than I ever got from this site! If it was not for Moby and Hybrid Z, I would have NEVER gotten past the original "WinXP" issue, or some of the other niggling issues at startup. The people on the Groups site were more interested in providing me a "guaranteed solution for all your problems that will only cost you $50" but nothing technically helpful to understand what was going on---and we all know now, that the circuit proffered to "solve all my problems" would have done NOTHING in my instance, other than to prove it was "not in the box". For $50 I doubt I would have received a refund after the installation was done! When I posted items about the possible XP incompatibility or laptop problems, it was soundly ignored. I think that is/was the most frustrating part of it all.

 

I know we are at a deadend here, and I really don't even want to bother with the new MSEFI forum, since they were of no help during the first go-round. To paraphrase a 70's song: "Where do we go from here, now that all of our answers are dried up? And how do I get it going, knowing nobody there gives a damn?"

 

I jumped wholeheartedly into the program, and like I said, have personally helped guys who were burning up boxes, couldn't get 'em running, or simply didn't yet have the skillset to finish the installation. And while I have SEEN it work, I can not replicate this on my own vehicle. (AAAAAAAAARGH!)

 

I am sick and tired of using an O-Scope. It is just not making any sense, and like you said, Moby, the shaping circuit of the 81 CAS should rectify the signal to the same waveform as the later unit (and I have personally verified this on the O-Scope) so ya know, it's like "WTF, what now?"

 

There is a place for a challenge, but this has turned into something near nightmareish porportions, and is shouldn't be this hard! I know it isn't on any of the other units I have assisted with... Hell maybe I'll reburn the code and see if that fixes it, but having to even DO that is something I should not have to do! It worked once before. But I don't think the guys on the MSEFI forum should be using phrases like "The original MSS Code is Rock Solid" becasue to me, "Rock Solid" should not require a reburn on the ECU every 20 to 30 hours of idling time.

 

BAH!

 

As for Bernards comment, I already have the inlet ducting from an 85 Z31 N/A, complete with the inlet silencer box, and the K&N Diamond Filter for a Z31T up front (makes for a very quiet intake tract, muahahaha!) so the componentry is already in place for the MAF... I just don't want to deal with modifying a stock harness and running all that crap through the firewall again. Though it would get me my hoodlatch hole back again (routed the MS MAP Vacuum line through there initially.... D'OH!)

 

For the trouble, I would put Lance's system on there, since I have access to a complete system off the Bonneville Car---that's the one JeffP is lusting after! Muahahaha!

Again, BAH!

 

oh, and yeah, I forgot to say THANKS to Moby and all here who have helped thusfar. Those who got it running on this specific installation were FAR more helpful that anyone at the generic board ever was!

[1 fast z]

Run it on fuel only, for awile anyways, till you get the thing fugured out. I have put about 5,000 miles on my MS daily driver and no problems. As you know that includes racing, and rod failures. LOL.

[Tony D]

Well, going "fuel only" is an option for those of us running distributors. To do that on an 81 wouldn't b ethat bad, since I could simply swap the distributor in, but then I would need a total rewire of my relay box for the MSS mods I incorporated into it.

 

Anyway, this is what I did today:

 

1) Went out and bough some 91 Octane gas, and filled the tank to the very very very top so that "out of gas" is not an option.

 

2) Dropped the splash pan again, and verified the gap spacing on the CAS trigger wheel to pickup is per Nissan Specification.

 

3) Stuck a dial indicator on the trigger wheel and checked it for runout---thought maybe there was a wobble making the "120" trigger read the "2 Degree" signal intermittently, causing massive glitching.

 

4) Went back and read lots of stuff in this forum pertaining to others with problems.

 

5) Went back out, moved the CAS Trigger wheel to the verified bottom stop of the bracket to take out any "excessive" advance. I thought maybe the 120 degree setting was causing a problem, and using trigger angles from 60 to 120 didn't seem to make a difference.... Soooo

 

6) Physically measured the trigger angle to the pickup, as measured with the TDC mark I made when I did the trigger wheel mod. I got around 100 to 105 degrees. (getting close, remember that when I used 120, the timing mark was what I thought was dead on the 9 degrees it was supposed to be showing.

 

7) I went in, started it, it ran like sh*t, just like before. Disconnected the Alternator, still ran like sh*t....

 

8) Reset the trigger angle from 120 to 90, and then checked timing--my trigger paddle was nowhere to be seen, but the TDC mark I had made was hovering around the 30 degree mark... Then went to 100, and checked timing. Then I realized the TDC mark I had made was almost dead lined up with the proper mark on the timing scale. I trimmed it 1 degree to 101, and used the timing light to null out advance, and everything zeroed.

 

9) Tried revving it, and it wasn't running like sh*t anymore.

 

The ONLY thing I can figure was that when I revved it, and it transitioned from BOOST to HIGH VAC and that 40 degree advance bin was called into play, the timing on the rotor was jumping phase, causing the thing to run like SH*T, until I shut it off, and restarted it.

 

I have the distributor in the engine according to the phasing instructions Nissan gives, and the spark is jumping off the center of the rotor tip...

 

So if I was off say 30 degrees in my CAS timing advanced, and the advance called for 40 during the highvac bin, that would easily jump the 60 degree phasing of the distributor cap and cause problems.

 

This is the only thing I can think of that would cause this problem.

 

After running it for about an hour in the yard, I took it out on the road for a pull. No more spark knocking, and a hard pull with little stumbles. Had a cough around 5500 in the top of third gear, but generally pulled O.K.

 

I successfully ran from a standing stop to 4500 in fourth gear and back to a stop in around 1/2 mile before being satisfied that it was working correctly for the day.

 

1 fast Z know my neighborhood, so he can gauge the pull, I was about 4500 in fourth gear at about halfway down the block short shifting the car at around 5000 to stay out of the "cough". JeffP said that was pulling pretty hard.

 

I guess so for having a 3.36 in a 260Z 2+2...

 

So for now it seems to be running right, and the CAS phasing on the 81 styles must be deemed critical when setting it up. No ballparking it, you will have to measure it to make sure you are dead on the timing or it will run like sh*t! We shall see how it runs tomorrow evening which will be the test on if this thing is running correctly I suppose.

 

In the meantime, I am going to ditch the external regulated Alternator, and go with the 81 Internally regulated unit I originally had on the engine when I first started running it in 2002/2003. I didn't have "voltage creep" with it, and it seems like this combination in the car is doing it again---though disconnecting it didn't do anything yesterday, maybe it did have an effect today....

 

Very strange.

 

But at least I got it to boil the Toyos, and made a run to almost the top of fourth gear that didn't have any coughs, dips, or power losses. So I am semi-enthusiastic again.

[mario_82_ZXT]

Nice to hear!

 

Of course now that your's is running again, mine starts running like crap...

Mario

[woldson]

for what its worht my bother in law has a ac corbra kit car with a 351 winsor nascar engine and a fast system. he could not get it to run worth s*it for 8 mos. broght in specilist and tons others to get it to run. ended up being physical timeing on the crank trigger had to unbolt it and move it forward on hole. now the timing still is not quite right but the car pulls like a bithch at 11 psi boost and approx 700 hp. yes it is cablable of 21 psi but it all ready scarcs the crap out of us. in his set up you have to lock the distrubuter from advacing so the cumpunter dose the caculattions for the advance

[ihatejoefitz]

i was excited today when my car turned over for the first time in about 5 months. granted, it was only the starter and MS wasnt even connected, but still.

 

i wish i were smoking toyos, haha