buZy Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 Hey guys! Having troubles overheating in stop and go traffic during summer days. Temp will climb to 210 plus with in a few minuets. Thats the highest I had it before shutting her down. Starts to puke coolant out the overflow around 198. Running two Moroso caps. One the motor stat housing, the other on the rad. Both caps are new. Motor cap 27-29 lbs. Rad cap 19-21 lbs. Coolant pukes from the Rad cap. Rad is a Aluminum Griffen, Core air flow size 19.5 long X 18 high X 2.25 thick. 180 thermostat also new. Basic Question here to start with...Big enough radiator of the 327? Motor runs very cool above 50 mph around 160 to 180 degress even on hot days above 80. So I think its my shroud and fan set up, both which I know suck for sure. Here is pic but the part you can't see is the lower 3 to 4 inches of the rad is totally unshrouded. Shroud too small. To me this would add to the problem more as the engine draws coolant from the lower hose into the motor correct? So... IF... my rad is of a large enough size... Where can I get a tight shroud plenum to fit those core size dimesions? Am I stuck having to build a custom one? Gosh I hope not. Willing to ditch the fan too if it comes down to it. Any comments or suggestions would be great. Thanks~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanomon Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 Is the fan pulling air through the rad? Reason I ask, is if the leads are crossed it will rotate in the oposite direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strotter Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I fought with my 327 as well (it was quite "wired"). The shroud thing turned out to be important. I initially tried using a fan out of a 3rd gen Firebird, which also didn't cover the whole radiator. What happened was, with the fan "on" the airflow took the path of least resistance, from engine compartment through the gap between shroud and radiator and then back through the fan. Get a little bit of speed on, the flow reversed, so it was OK driving (even stop-and-go) but heated up quick when stopped. You might try an experiment with a bit of thin particle board or something: try blocking off the bottom of the radiator entirely - tape the material to the shroud and the radiator support. Even though part of the radiator will be "ignored", I'll bet you'll see more effective cooling at idle. Best thing, of course, is go to the local junkyard and find a Taurus two-speed. They may not be sexy, but they work like a charm and shroud will cover virtually your entire radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 the part you can't see is the lower 3 to 4 inches of the rad is totally unshrouded...Shroud too small... Yep. I think you diagnosed your own problem. Good luck!! Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 overheating is attributed to a few things, inadequate water flow, inadequate readiator, or inadequate air flow. From the sounds of it it is airflow, so the shroud and fan are what you should concentrate on based on your description of how it's acting. Why the different rad caps? Both should be the highest pressure you have on the car now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted June 19, 2005 Author Share Posted June 19, 2005 I checked the fan and it is pulling air through rad in the proper direction. The reason for running two caps is so the system can be filled to capacity with coolant as the rad sits about 1 inch lower than the thermostat housing. Used different pressure caps so the motor cap would act as a plug so to speak and the rad cap would control the pressure. Don't know much about cooling dynamics but thought using two 27-29 psi caps might to much pressure on the system. Also I noticed the 15" fan is mounted directly to the rad core surface with some sort of special tip tie installation strips. My thoughts are what good is a shroud or air chamber plenum if the fan is sitting right on the rad surface? It doesnt make sense to me. Still learning and thanks for the input guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I used this seal ( top left ) from McMaster-Carr. It sealed the shroud to the rad, and made a huge difference. http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.asp?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=3214&CtlgEdition=&RelatedCtlgPgs=3214,3215&sesnextrep=417837317975958&ScreenWidth=1024&McMMainWidth=804 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 Ok going to try one of those flex a lite fans. If that doesn't do it guess I will just have to build my own shroud. Wish me luck. http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1076&prmenbr=361 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 You might want to rethink the black magic fan. Do a search. A number of people have talked about having problems with that fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 305240 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Get or make a shroud that covers the whole rad. Mount the fan with part of the blades exposed into the engine compartment. The JTR manual recommends this. I'm using a stock 280 rad with a stock shroud. I have a 2 speed Taurus fan mounted inside the shroud. No problem overheating. But then, I'm only running a slightly modified 5.0. Hood vents help a bunch while setting in traffic also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I was wanting to know if someone could tell me more about the Taurus 2 spd wiring. As I have it, I have a wire going to a switch in the cab to a relay that goes to one of the + terminals on the fan. When I got the fan I took it apart and eventhough it has two + terminals they are both connected to the same thing inside so I can't see how it is a 2 speed fan unless the differentiation is in the amount of power supplied to the two prongs. Maybe I don't really have the 2 speed fan?. I got it out of a junkyard it says it's out of a '96 Taurus and it has the blades like the 2 spds I have seen. I have tried hooking my hot wire up to the other terminal and even to both at the same time and it still pulls the same. It does pull a lot of air but I fail to see where the two speeds come from. Thanks for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I was wanting to know if someone could tell me more about the Taurus 2 spd wiring. As I have it, I have a wire going to a switch in the cab to a relay that goes to one of the + terminals on the fan. When I got the fan I took it apart and eventhough it has two + terminals they are both connected to the same thing inside so I can't see how it is a 2 speed fan unless the differentiation is in the amount of power supplied to the two prongs. Maybe I don't really have the 2 speed fan?. I got it out of a junkyard it says it's out of a '96 Taurus and it has the blades like the 2 spds I have seen. I have tried hooking my hot wire up to the other terminal and even to both at the same time and it still pulls the same. It does pull a lot of air but I fail to see where the two speeds come from. Thanks for any help. A 1 speed has 2 wires, a 2 speed has 3 wires. If your's has 3 wires and both turn the same speed, more than likely your low speed is not working, it uses a resistor to slow it down, and it's probably bad. BuZy - use a Taurus 2 speed fan, it's much stronger than a Black Magic fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I have the black magic fan on my 350 and it works well. However, its thermostat burnt up after a year! So I had to make my own switching device with a thermostat switch in water passage and a relay. An easy and reliable fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 Hmmmmm.... Have heard many good things about the Taurus 2spd fan on hybridz in the past. Can anyone chime in and tell me what years Ford Taurus cars are they used in? And what are the basic overall outside shroud dimensions? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Here is a good write up on a Taurus fan. They say it pulls around 2000cfm, but it is much more than that. http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/02/electricfan/index.shtml Measurements: http://www.broncoii4x4.com/taurus-fan/electric-taurus-fan.php What is the fan in your pic?, it looks a little like a Taurus fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scarab73 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 you can find the 2 speed fans in late 80's early 90's ford products (tauras, sable, probe, thunderbird) different cars have different size shrouds. just make sure there are three big wires going into the fan motor. These fans are great! the ford two speed fan on low speed is just about as good as the black magic flexalite, and only a fraction of the cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 Hey Mike kZ -Thanks for the links. After seeing those, its not the taurus fan for sure. My best guess its a Hayden. The shroud is a seperate piece cut and hacked from somthing else. Here is what I learned today after messing around with the car. Ambient air temp 85-90 degrees. A rare hot day in MN. No driving, running the motor at idle in the driveway only. First with NO fan in the car at all. Hood stock closed cold motor heated to 200 in about 6 to 7 mins max, then shut it down. The 27-29 cap on the stat was fitting to loose and puking coolant at 195. Tightened the ears on the cap. Test again to 200. That fixed the problem. Next I borrowed a black magic from my friends pick up and mocked it in for testing. On the bench it seemed to flow the same or close to what I had so I was not impressed. Hard to tell. The fans are the same diameter. Run the car to 180 when stat opened I turned on the fan. Ran the motor 18-20 mins at idle and temp held at 201 max. Hot.. but it held!.. and didnt barf coolant. (i like that word too hehe) So the black magic did work better than I thought...Fixing the cap I am sure had an effect too. But I am still on the edge of over heating as the stat is still wide open. Flex a lite makes larger fan called the extreme 180. Here is a link. 3300 cfm to 2800. Not much more cfm. But an inch larger in diameter and a full shroud. With mods I could get it to seal properly. After doing a search on here I found a thread on it. Sounds very comparable to the taurus. Hard to beat that cheap price but new stuff is always fun too. Wish I had a taurus fan to test mock. On a hot day like to today if I could get to 195 or 190 that would be good enough for me. Next rad clean and flush. New mix too. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks everyone. http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/180_black_magic_x-treme.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleMX Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Here's a pic of a JTR radiator and a Taurus fan. http://www.circuitflex.com/JTRTaurus.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Check the Amp rating of that 180 fan, here is the reason from another post: "Note they say estimated. Don't get too hung up on CFM ratings for fans and such because most are rated in free air. Once you put some restriction in the flow like a radiator, you really start to test the efficiency of the blade design, shroud and motor. Remember the infamous 600 cfm electric supechargers? The real number that stands out is the current pull. 40 amps at 14 volts is 560 watts of power. The black magic fan only pulls 13.9 amps. At 14 volts that is 195 watts. Which fan works harder to move air?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mileski Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Of course, there's still the tried and true 7 blade engine driven clutch fan. It was 110 degrees here in Tucson yesterday and I drove home in stop and go traffic and I don't think the water temp ever hit 190 (ZZ4 crate engine, regular 4 core Camaro size radiator). Mike Mileski Tucson, AZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.