Guest Daddyrick Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 I have a 78 280Z that has no rust, but the bottom of the frame rails in places are dinged pretty bad. Does anyone provide the metal strips to weld on to the bottom of the frame for both looks and strength. Also, where can I locate a bold in or weld-on 4-point roll bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 You sure you want a 4 point bar only? One of our members (SCARP) just had a pretty bad accident and I think we all would agree that a cage is nearly mandatory--but a 6 point cage is much better than a 4 point cage. Most of the 4 point cages I've seen attach to the rear wheel wells and that doesn't look like the best method. Somewhere in these emails someone mentioned SW Race Cars had a 240-280Z cage kit. [This message has been edited by DavyZ (edited December 21, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarp Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 Go with a 12 or 14 point cage...... and 5 point racing harnass......... It may save your life someday...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 quote: Originally posted by DavyZ: Somewhere in these emails someone mentioned SW Race Cars had a 240-280Z cage kit. [This message has been edited by DavyZ (edited December 21, 2000).] Try this link.. http://www.swracecars.com/roll%20bars&cages.html Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 At a minimum I'd go with what I've got. 4 points in the back touching down on the rear tub and the strut tower - NOT the back bumper. From there I've got sidebars going down past my hip to the foot area. From the top of the rear main hoop I've got bars going along the tops of the doors to a bar going across the windshield. Last but not least the bar at the windshield also touches down in the footwell area following the countour of the dash. Simply tying the rear strut towers together with a 4 point isn't going to do squat except maybe keep the roof from coming down on you. I had two concerns with my cage - side impact (BIG concern) and torque twist. A bar in the back will address neither of these. I may even go back and have another side bar welded along the lower rocker for additional strength from a side impact! Yeah, climbing over the bar is a PITA, especially when it wasn't painted and I got rust on my butt. However it will save my butt in a side impact and if NHRA type rules hadn't been a concern it could've dipped down some to get out of the way and been tied in somewhere (shrug). Is up to you but decide what you wish to protect. Don't do a bar just for looks IMO. P.S. Done right you'll still have rear vision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest potterma Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 I have an 81 280ZX and it looks like my frame rails are rotten . I'll probably need to yank the existing frame rails and lay in new pieces. While I'm at it, I might as well address other chassis strengthening issues, like additional cross members and the like. Anyone got any good advice for proper material to use (ie, box dimension and thickness, steel type, etc) for the rails and extra cross members? Thanks! ------------------ MPotter 81 280ZX The fun has just begun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rooh Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 you should contact chassis engineering @561-863-1424. They'll bend you an NHRA approved 6 or 8 point bar/cage for under $200. ------------------ Rooh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 Check-out Alston Chassis Works at www.cachassisworks.com/ Their quality is top-notch and prices are reasonable. Mark ------------------ " Now where did I set my beer? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest racerzs Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 I have a S&W roll cage in my car. I can tell you unless they have changed the design the main hoop will connect just inside the rockers. This worked out fine for my car as I ran new frame rails along the inside of the rocker pannels. The rest of the cage was a nice fit. I oppted to use the bars that go out through the firewall down to the front frame for the door bars as they had a slight jog in them that allowed more elbow and arm room that the straight bars would have. (that came with the kit) I had some other bars that I used from another kit for the ones that went through the fire wall as these needed to have more of a bend in them the way I was installing them, but all in all I was impressed in the way that the rest of the kit fit the car. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 Hey Brad, am I reading that you didn't have angled bars going from behind the seats to the front footwell area? (my coffee hasn't kicked in yet so the mind is foggy) Are you running the stock dash with those pieces that go into the engine compartment? Everything fit? Did you also look at Chris Alston (sp?) Chassis Works? I'm looking to put in a weld-in cage that won't interfere too much with the stock interior panels or dash. In a word, I want my cake and eat it too. Just wondering if can be done fairly easily or if it's a PITA. Thanks! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest racerzs Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 David, Sorry for the confusion. Yes the Bars that go from the main hoop down to the front floor are bent a little. The ones that came with the S&W kit were straight. the ones that were supposed to go on out to the engine compartment had a slight jog in them, so that is the ones I used for the door bars. check out the link below for a few pics of the roll cage. I did not cut on the dash at all, However I removed the Vent Ducts and took the bars right through the holes. The dash could not be removed after that but it worked out great. Recently I had to add a dash bar in front of the dash Per NHRA Rules. So it's a little crowded for me as I am 6'. My wife seems to fit fine. http://sites.netscape.net/zracerbarkley/rollcage/ for a look at the whole car check out http://sites.netscape.net/zracerbarkley/home/barkleyhome.htm Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 Thanks for the reply, Brad! I am 6'2" and think that maybe I should rethink the cage a little. Possibly a clevis joint in the angled bar by the seat could be an option. I think I'll pass on the bar going through the dash vents, but hey, clean install! I'm trying to make a mostly street going Z that the wife will feel secure in when we drive up Highway 1. Cutting up the dash would eliminate the vents or worse and that is not what my goals are since the car will see 90% street time anyway. Thanks for the reply! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 For anyone considering doing the S&W roll bar/cage check out the following archieve. I installed an S&W kit this past summer and wrote a little on my experiences. Also, I'm 6'3" tall, so I can sympathise with crawling over the side bars. S&W Write Up -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 For those doing a cage, I can't stress enough that these cage KITS are only a starting point. I have noticed so many areas where you could improve on the design just in the last week. Welding tabs to the roof bulkhead in the rear, tieing into the interior sheetmetal beind the seats, tieing into the firewall and the door sills... All these areas can be done with attention to the interior panels and understanding that you will have to trim panels to get them back in place. I agree with Andy that the door bars are probably useless unless you tie them in better than the two standard points. I'll Post pictures as my welding progresses and the cage developes.. Unfortunately I ran out of tubing and will have to wait a few days to get more done. You guys who plan to install your cages.. Buy a tubing notcher (and a bender if you can..http://www.northerntools.com) ...Very handy, and some additional tubing and gussets. Plan to make additional welds and tie-ins in order make the cell worth while.... Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 Mike, doesn't your car have a relatively "stock" interior with the panels in place? Minor trimming or even major cutting doesn't bother me, it's exposed areas that do. Noise comes in, it's unsightly, etc. My goal is a car that is fun AND comfortable. Why? I have to sell my wifey on the concept of this V8 Z as well. "Sweetie, we can go to the wine country in the Z--think of the romance: just you and I (and Z makes 3)." See my point? A stripped interior is not for me. O.K. I'm a wimp, but we all want something different. So, keeping as much of the interior intact appeals to me. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 My guess on the sidebar issue - specifically the bar that goes from the driver's left shoulder area down to the footwell (clutch dead-pedal area) - is that the ineffectiveness of the sidebar is due to the footwell being a non-structural area. That area is unsupported sheet metal, outboard of the frame rails. Without additional reinforcement, the sidebar has nothing rigid to anchor to. On my car, the clutch dead-pedal is cut out and the area is draped by a 1/4" sheet metal plate - actually two plates, one of which drapes over the rocker panel. And outside of the car, there is a bar from the end of the rocker panel/footwell area diagonally to the tension/compression strut perch on the framerail outboard side. That's on both the driver and passenger sides. In addition, the passenger side has a bar running diagonally from the passenger rocker panel area to the midpoint of the dash bar (that's where the heater core sits in the stock Z). Also, the second sidebar, running from just above the door hinge area down toward the "box" where the seat belt retracts, adds to the structure. Together the two door bars form an "X". That makes getting into the car difficult, but I have a relocated steering column and quick-release steering wheel. These are rather extreme modifications, but thought I'd throw them into the discussion. I have not driven the car aggressively, so I can't yet report whether "theory is supported by practice". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 WHOA! The side bars didn't help as much as you though they would? That blows me away -- when I think about how a chassis would bend under hard acceleration, I would expect the side bars to increase rigidity to the point that such a difference would make them them mandatory, in theory at least. Well, it looks like if I go the side bar route, then I'll put in a clevis joint to make the bars removable. Thanks, Andy, for the archive story since it used real world experience to pass along helpful info. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 My car DID have the interior in it. However, as soon as I can post some more pics, you will see the interior completely gutted with the rear hoop welded in place. Michael and I were looking at my car when he visited and both of us focused on the fact that the car really doesn't have a "B" pillar, which is important. One of the reasons the car seems seperate in the roof at the windshield and the rear hatch area is the lack of additional support. I'm all for keeping the interior as intact as possible and for shielding all of the outside noise from within the car (I did sell my flowmasters remember) so I can sympathise. However, I'm still betting I can retain the majority of my interior panels with some modifications of them! We'll see, but that's my plan right now! I'll post more pics as the car evolves, but I still say, just as mchael did with his, use those cages as a foundation to build from. Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk [This message has been edited by Mikelly (edited January 09, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 Micheal, Mike, Dave and whoever else is still following this thread- I too mounted the driver side bar where the dead pedal used to be. I welded a 1/4" thick 5 x 8 plate to the floor then attached the side bar to that. MY hypothosis on why the side bars didn't do much, is because most of the body flex comes from behind the B-pillars. By adding the main loop alone, a HUGE amount of "twisting" was eliminated. Adding the rear bars to the floor near the spare tire well also helped this effect. I really haven't tossed the Z around very heard yet (thanks to a very leaky gas cap and lousy street tires) but I'm sure the side bars have had some effect on the breaking characterists. Once I get access to a digital camera, I will post some pictures on my Web site. No, really... I will! As for the interior, I still run with 100% of the original interior. The doors just barely close with the original arm rest in place. I thought abour removing the armrest... but then why? Looks ugly without it and I also need something to grab onto when closing the door. Once that 5-point is locked in, my movement is very limited. Again... once I get a camera... yadda yadda yadda... Thanks for the kind words DavyZ. -Andy [This message has been edited by Andrew Bayley (edited January 09, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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