SleeperZ Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Hi guys: I'm not getting much feedback from Subaru technical forums. I have a '98 Subaru with a hydraulic clutch. It grew harder and harder to shift, and bleeding it fixed it less and less. I replaced the master and slave cylinders, and bled the crap out of it, but it will not disengage the clutch at all. There seems to be a lot of slop in the clutch fork before the slave expands enough to start the disengagement. The clutch has never slipped in normal use on me, although it's seen some off-road use. Anyone dealt with adjusting and bleeding this clutch before? Is it possible the disc or diaphragm spring is worn to the point where it won't disengage or is it just a case of air still in the system? The car has 100k miles, clutch is original. Thanks for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I've seen a couple of AWD cars lose the clutch. Most recently and EVO. When it's clutch went it had just the symptoms you describe. Sorry. Hope I'm wrong. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Projekt sixSTAR Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 which suby forums have you gone to. i used to be part of i-club.com and rs25.com and they are all pretty cool. if you have 100k on the original clutch bro switch it out. i had like 41k on the original clutch before i sold it and it felt like it was getting weaker and weaker as i drove it. but i drive pretty hard, no hard launches, just a lot of downshifting, rev matching, and occasional power shifting. i just think you should change it out. get an act street clutch or whatever. try rs25.com they can help you or i-club.com. hope everything works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 which suby forums have you gone to. i used to be part of i-club.com and rs25.com and they are all pretty cool. if you have 100k on the original clutch bro switch it out. i had like 41k on the original clutch before i sold it and it felt like it was getting weaker and weaker as i drove it. but i drive pretty hard' date=' no hard launches, just a lot of downshifting, rev matching, and occasional power shifting. i just think you should change it out. get an act street clutch or whatever. try rs25.com they can help you or i-club.com. hope everything works out for you.[/quote']I got a recommendation for http://www.awdpirates.net. It's almost like I need a longer rod in the slave cylinder. Have you seen anything in the fork/bearing mechanism that would lose travel with the clutch still grabbing? Or is it likely the disc got so thin it's out of the range of the hydraulics? It's just freaking me out that it would do this, yet still grab -- it's always been my experience that clutches start slipping as they wear out.... On another note, is there anything tricky or difficult about dropping the tranny from a Suby AWD? Pop the driveshaft and half shafts, and just pull it out the bottom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Projekt sixSTAR Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Oh I forgot to mention that I had a 01 RS which had a push type slave. 98's I believe have pull type. Make sure you didn't get the push type otherwise you wouldn't be able to engage at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collectindust240Z Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I just did the clutch in my 99 2.5RS. There was nothing all that difficult. You can purchase the diagrams on Subaru's web site. Download and print them. I've heard stories of the sleeve around the input shaft wearing down and causing the throwout bearing collar to bind. Your problem is probably due to excessive wear though. I got about 120K out of my stock clutch. I've been told that was a minor miracle. I replaced it with a NAPA clutch. My thoughts are to let the clutch be the weak link in the drivetrain. They're cheaper than trannies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z_Master Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Also try NASIOC forums... Is that the right name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted July 16, 2005 Author Share Posted July 16, 2005 Yes, I verified the slave is operating properly to it's full length, and the clutch does not release. And there is way too much play in the clutch fork. Tranny coming down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z_Master Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 A lot of times the little pivot ball where the clutch fork pivots on can snap or break. My friend's SR20 did just that. He could put his clutch in all the way and the slave would extend, but no leverage on the clutch fork due to the ball which broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterZ Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 As the friction material wears the diaphram spring in the pressure plate changes it's position and so the release arm must work in improper working angles. As clutches wear the clutch pedal engagement gets higher and higher until it is up under the dash. The dis-engagement point also gets lower and lower until there's not enough floorboard for the travel required and the car keeps going when you want to idle in gear. Is this the case? That's probably normal wear and it's long overdue for a clutch. The difficulty in selecting gears is likely your syncros wearing because they are working against a clutch that isn't disengaging. They might soon tell you that they are worn as well by the grinding noises during shifting. Some cars won't slip the clutch when they are worn. A BMW 320I will slip to the point where the car won't move but the same year 535 will keep working until there's nothing left of the disc. It's all in the lever ratios as parts wear. Check your release lever pivot points as well. Collectindust240Z is correct that other wear items can cause release point problems and you don't want to go in there twice. Some release arms pivot on a nylon pivot ball that may be all gone from the amount of friction material dust and many years of service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 As the friction material wears the diaphram spring in the pressure plate changes it's position and so the release arm must work in improper working angles. As clutches wear the clutch pedal engagement gets higher and higher until it is up under the dash. The dis-engagement point also gets lower and lower until there's not enough floorboard for the travel required and the car keeps going when you want to idle in gear. Is this the case? That's probably normal wear and it's long overdue for a clutch. The difficulty in selecting gears is likely your syncros wearing because they are working against a clutch that isn't disengaging. They might soon tell you that they are worn as well by the grinding noises during shifting. Some cars won't slip the clutch when they are worn. A BMW 320I will slip to the point where the car won't move but the same year 535 will keep working until there's nothing left of the disc. It's all in the lever ratios as parts wear. Check your release lever pivot points as well. Collectindust240Z is correct that other wear items can cause release point problems and you don't want to go in there twice. Some release arms pivot on a nylon pivot ball that may be all gone from the amount of friction material dust and many years of service. Sounds like you've been driving the car. That pretty much describes it, but I've never had a clutch go that way. I'm already having to find a pin punch for removing the CVs from the transaxle (they don't 'pop' out), and I've destroyed one ball joint with a fork (like the manual says), when it seems I can just unbolt the top. Always an adventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted August 6, 2005 Author Share Posted August 6, 2005 Ok, it took a while, but I finally dropped the tranny today, and the problem is obvious. The clutch fork is broken. It's normal for a fork to be made of stamped steel, they even have a reinforcing plate welded inside. What annoys me is the support plate is welded in 3 spots, but neither the pivot or the arm is located on the supporting plate. Basically the arm cracked around the plate. What a POS. Heres a link to pictures: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sleeper78z/album?.dir=/4c87 Unless someone knows of a good aftermarket piece that won't break like this, I'm stuck with ordering a new factory piece. Maybe it'll last another 100k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z_Master Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 I had a feeling it had to do with the fork or the pivot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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