Why can i not find a 327block?

[jack46]

From an earlier post most probaly never saw Grumpvette said from

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=103152&highlight=grumpy second last post in aove thread, and last gives dyno numbers for 302

 

the least expensive combo to to build with the most hp per dollar spent will be a 350 with a solid lifter cam and a decent set of 195-215cc heads

 

I build these all the time, and a similar 383-396 sbc only costs a few hundred dollars more, so most guys opt for the 383-396 sbc simply because you get approximately the same HORSE POWER PER CUBIC inch of displacement, keep in mind that,HORSE POWER PER CUBIC inch of displacement,(thats average not peak hp, both engines may peak at similar hp but wont be close on average tq)because a 383-396 has three major advantages, first obviously the extra 33-46 inches of displacement are obvious, but the other two factors are not, that increased compression with the same cam timing and combustion chamber size and that the longer stroke lowers the EFFECTIVE RPM BAND, this tends to make controlling the valve train far easier in the upper rpms , while a 350 normally operates up to about 7000rpm, a 383-or 396 tends to operate at its peak of about 600rpm lower, at about 6400rpm

 

lets look at the differance because its important

 

lets use the same cam ,a crane 110921 heads,ARF210cc and start with a 355 with 10.5:1 cpr useing flat top pistons and a single plane intake with a 850 carb and the DD-2000 makes its wild guess at

511hp/456tq

now lets build a very similar 383 using all the same components

 

we find HORSEPOWER peaks at a similar 518hp but drops 500rpm and your up to 10.9:1 cpr and you gained tq to 484 ft lbs now that does not appear to be a huge gain UNTILL you look closely at the TQ curve the longer stroke increased AVERAGE tq about 35-37 ft lbs over most of the curve,and your port air flow velocities with the larger displacement tends to give you a more efficient cylinder fill(volumetric efficiency)and CYLINDER SCAVAGING from the exhaust

 

BTW that similar 302, would require smaller head ports, and would make good hp at just under 500, but would be about a 100 ft lbs lowe in tq that the 383, thats A HUGE DIFFERANCE in its ability to move the car, and controling the valve train at 7500rpm PLUS can be a problem

[dr_hunt]

Not all 283 blocks will make a 327, the Cast crank 283 blocks are the only ones that will clear the 327 counter weights. These blocks are identified bare by HB casting id mark in the front timing chain area between the cam and crank. If it doesn't have that the 327 crank won't clear and you'll end up doing alot of work and may hit water in the bottom of the cylinder walls.

[HarrisonTX]

Wow, i didnt think this would be such a big deal

 

That mexican g-body comment, ha.

I found the parts out of a elcamino, and installed them in my bu.

 

350's are fun, i have 2, one in the malibu, and one in my '69 chevy.

 

I have never seen a 302 run, and never heard a sbc turn to 8grand, i want to.

The only way im gonna get too is if i go back in time, cause noones runnin one today. aside from the block, and pistons, a 302 isnt any more expensive to build.

its the same cam, intake, heads... and the pistons are only about $400 for a set of domed forged pop ups.. my NEW IN THE BOX 283 crank, that when i decoded the numbers showed "for military use" was only $300, did i mention it was new in the box? and the block is only gonna run me about id say $200...

[DavyZ]

Davy' date='

Maybe these guys can help you out, unless you plan on doing the assembly work locally:) [/quote']

 

Thanks, man, but I'm just moaning right now. Hard times make me whine! I'll take 350s all day long like I have now; dime-a-dozen. When I have looked for a used 400 sbc, they seem nowhere to be found, but when I'm not looking, occasionally they'll pop up. Funny that.

 

Davy

[dr_hunt]

Well, I've got several 350 4 bolts, one 327, and one 4 bolt 400 that I'm saving. Other than that I go dart block all the time except now I'm going to soon have a 4 bolt 454 with brodix heads.

 

The 327's are hard to find, heck all are getting hard to find, have to be ready when they show up.

[Pop N Wood]

....aside from the block, and pistons, a 302 isnt any more expensive to build.

 

As you get into it I am sure you will see where the errors are in this statement.

 

If you want to turn high RPM then take a second look at the "controlling the valve train" statements above. Add to that the added work you will need to do to the oiling system to maintain reliability. It takes more than a short stroke to turn RPM.

 

This topic is frequently discussed on this site. I was like you and really wanted a 302, in part because of the 69 Camaro engine. But, as Grumpy pointed out, the only reason Chevy offered that small displacement engine was to compete in a class of racing that limited displacement. If you aren't limited by class rules, then you are going to spend a good bit more to get a less potent engine.

[Guest scarab73]

FWIW: you could do it old school and bore a 283 block to 4.00

 

why has no one else had this idea?? It was common place in the 60's and 70's. you just have to find a '58 or later 283 (they started with standard side mounts in '58 but not newer than the mid 60's, these are thick walled blocks that can be safely bored .120 over yielding a 301ci rev-happy small block!!

DO IT!

8)

[pparaska]

Let me just say that I have a 327, bored .030", then with 10K hard miles on it (very rich carbs, washed the cylinders). It may clean up with a hone. But I'm in Maryland. I'll be pulling the heads off of it soon, the my 400 has my attention right now.

 

I won't go into whether you should build it or not - that's preference.

[Here comes trouble]

I can always get excited and day dream about a 302 but in my realm of knowledge, budget, ability and reality my limitations would be confined to a simple wired 383 carburated SBC stroker

[American]

Harrison,

 

Give the guys at City Motor Supply on Harry Hines a call. They probably have a core they will sell you, if not ask them to point you to a core supplier, there are several here in the Dallas area.

 

http://citymotorsupply.com/

[zthis]

i must be missing something here ....why would you need a 327 block when its

the exact same bore as a 350 block?

[HarrisonTX]

because the crank journals are smaller on a 327..

There is small journal, and large journal 327's

[strotter]

On that same theme: do the large-journal 327 cranks match a 350? Would it be possible to put a large-journal 327 crankshaft into a 350 block? Heck, how about a four-bolt main 350 block?

 

That said, my swap originally used a 327 small-journal, in which I managed to spin a bearing last summer. Bought a crate motor from the local GM dealer, pulled the heads, cam, and valvetrain off the '7, installed 'em in the 350. Yes, there was some loss in C.R., but everything else the same. I have to say, after a year of living with a 350, I'm looking to rebuild and reinstall the 327. Why? Not about horsepower, it's about "feel". The smaller motor had a willingness to play that the larger motor simply does not. It was zippy. It zipped. It zipped me around. The point of a sports car is that it's fun, and the 327 was more fun. Less power, true, but more fun.

[zthis]

On that same theme: do the large-journal 327 cranks match a 350? Would it be possible to put a large-journal 327 crankshaft into a 350 block? Heck' date=' how about a four-bolt main 350 block?

[/quote']

 

YES ..but you need 327 pistons (the pin heights are different) rods are the same

[Mike C]

I didn't read all of this, so I'm not sure if you have found a motor. I have a small journal 327 short block,standard bore with standard/standard crank. I think it is an L79 actually and has domed pistons. It is disassembled so you can easily inspect. I am in Austin and you can have it for $200.

 

I had intentions of building a 302 myself which is why I bought it, but time and money have sent me in different directions.

[pparaska]

Yes, the large journal 327 (and the 307, same journals, stroke) crank will drop into a 350 block, no problem.

 

To build a 302, you could use the 283 crank (which were all small journal) in a 350 or large journal 327 block, and use bearing spacers. Nothing wrong with them if done correctly.