Guest JAMIE T Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Just finished up a control arm for my newly designed all new Datsun Zcar IRS. If you haven't seen it, check out the thread in the drivetrain section. Basically, I building an entirely new rear suspension and diff conversion. Not satisfied with the currently available "adapter" this and that and LCA's with too many compromises I decided to build my own. I have been developing this over the past year and things have finally began to materialize. What I'm building is a R230 (ZXTT, 3.69 ratio) conversion that includes new hubs and strut housings as well as new LCA's. Here is the LCA. Here is where they will attach. Please add anything you think is relavent. Make suggestions, etc... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I forgot to add details! It weigh's 10 pounds. It's made of 1-1/4" .120 wall DOM. 3/4" heavy duty, teflon lined rod ends. The are threaded into 1" 5/32" wall DOM tapped to 3/4-16. There are about an inch long and welded into the other tubing. Why so beefy you ask? 600rwhp, triple disc clutch, full drag slicks, 6500 RPM launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Impressive, just wondering this may be a stupid question, but why is the adjustment on the rear of the control arm longer? Is it because the front attachment isn't adjustable so the rear does the toe in/out. Good job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Impressive looking parts. I'm envious of your skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Impressive, just wondering this may be a stupid question, but why is the adjustment on the rear of the control arm longer? Is it because the front attachment isn't adjustable so the rear does the toe in/out. Good job Yes, the inner rear pick-up is the toe adjuster. It is a QA1 turnbuckle. It's very heavy duty. All of the pick-ups are theoretically adjustable if you want to take the bolts out and drop the arm alittle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Note the L9 hardware. Not only is it some the strongest there is, these are 3/4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synlubes Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Can`t wait to see them. Looks GOOD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatsunATX Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 looking real nice man keep us updated!! Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You're going to have to put your battery in front of the radiator to offset all that rear end weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Based on the hi torque applications we're seeing, I like this design. I'd want strength over potential failure. After the failures we saw with the round tube rear control arms, I'll never opt for an asthetically pleasing part over strength. Sure, there's a balance point, and I'd personally like to have seen the rear differential carrier framework in aluminum instead of steal, but hey, it looks good none the less... For a 450HP/400#ft. torque application car launching on slicks, or doing track days on slicks, this design would seem like an excellent solution, with a slight hit in weight. I'm impressed... Might have to drive down and take a look Jamie! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 You're going to have to put your battery in front of the radiator to offset all that rear end weight. The parts are surprisingly light. Lighter to this point than the parts they are replacing. Besides, my car has alot of weight removed and the RB26 is a pretty hefty chunk on the nose of the car. Hopefully, I can obtain as good of a front/rear weight ratio as a V8 car, but I doubt it. Mike, YOU KNOW I could have gone with aluminum. But, my knowledge of aluminum and having been welding it for years I decided to go with steel. FORGED or cast (OEM type) aluminum diff subframes and suspension members have the advantage of being formed as one piece. When we weld 6061 AL, the heat treating gets removed and the "Heat affected" zone around the weld becomes weak. If I had a huge chunk of billet to machine it from then it would be cool, but to weld the parts together(without designing a brand new chassis) would have made too many weak areas for me to trust my life to. No thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbc3 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Jamie, Another comment on the high HP launch problem with the R230, maybe something to add to your rear brace. Something that I have noticed after racing the car both times, I was leaking a little rear end fluid. When I drive the car normally there are no rear leaks at all. This weekend I had the car out and had an opportinity to really hit it hard, no tire slip in first, second and third and damn if I didn't have another few drops of fluid leaking out the cover of the rear. I know that some of the late model Mustang Cobras with IRS rears had similar problems and if not corrected with an IRS brace, the rear supports were breaking off. Take a look at this page... http://www.billetflow.com/irs_brace.htm or look at this page http://www.steeda.com/store/-catalog/555-8118.htm Their rear brace is shaped differently, but the brace is actually part of the cover also. We had to put one of these on my neighbor's Cobra to keep him from tearing up his rear. As soon as the brace was installed, there are no more leakage issues from the high launch stresses. I am thinking that I may try and do something like this brace. At least try and get a couple of the rear perimeter bolts on each side into a brace to help the rear from distorting the cover and causing a potential problem. What do you think? Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8dats Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 wow jamie that looks great! it looks like many many hours of fab work. nice to have the skills and equipment. the car is going to be an awesome machine keep up the good work and definately keep up the pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Jody, WOW! Thanks for the link! I had no idea the Cobra's were doing that. I've never heard of it happening to our cars and diff cover style. But, that isn't saying it can't happen! I'll definately consider beefing that up. I have a question for you! What sort of angle are your shafts in fore and aft? Are the straight into the hubs? Or, do they angle forward slightly to the hubs? Also, what do you all think of a torque arm, ala C4 Corvette style? I could make it adjustable for pinion angle also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbc3 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Jamie, I moved my rear forward slightly with spacers between the rear and the mustache bar so my angle was straight. I have not done any measurements, but it looked straight to me. You could easily mount your rear support to get a straight angle. As far as a torque arm, I think that if it was connected to the body/frame it may work. The stock f-body torque arms go to the transmission and moves quite a bit. I don't think that would be a good idea with the diff held solid in the back of the rear. Now if you were able to do a tubular torque arm to a brace that was solidly mounted and there is little movement, it could work. There are some issues though. I have the stock cross member in the front of the rear a-arms and the R230 has the wide driveshaft flange... leaving very little space for a torque arm. I know with your new design, there may be a possibility. The torque arm will move the upward force of hard launches and lift the front of the car much more... you may be seeing some air under the front tires with one I was lifting my Camaro 12" or so on hard launches... it was fun. I have a really nice tubular torque arm in my garage if you want to see pics. Now the problem I see with a torque arm would be the mounts on the diff to hold the torque arm. They have to be 2 mounting points 6 to 8 inches forward of each other. I know you are creative, but building those mounts could be a problem. Also the pinion angle will change on launches. Even mounted to the frame with my torque arm, I was dialing in 4 degrees of negative DS angle so when the car launched and under hard acceleration it would come up to normal. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Thanks Jody, you're the man bro! I love your avatar. That thing looks mean launching like that! I was thinking of attaching it to the body, not the transmission. Like the Spohn torque arm for the F-bodies. I never changed the TA on my Camaro, but I looked into it. My Z has framerails so I have a nice solid place to attach it to. I need to fab a rear tranny mount anyway. One of my concerns with the TA idea is clearance for my 4" exhaust. Also, what about centering the pinion in the tunnel and having the diff offset to one side? Anyone have any reasons why I can't do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeaut Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Also, what about centering the pinion in the tunnel and having the diff offset to one side? Anyone have any reasons why I can't do that? Spooky, I was just going to ask you how you were thinking of positioning the diff. I was wondering the opposite to you, positioning the diff centrally so that the CV shafts would be the same length but the pinion more offset to one side. Not too sure what the advantages would be to having CV shafts of exactly equal length compared to a difference of maybe 1 to 2 inches with an offset diff. Nice work with the arm design as well, are the beams that the attach to fixed in the rear support or could they be rotated, so as to lift the pick up points to mess with the roll centre? Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Making that part rotate is do-able, but not on mine. I didn't even think of that! I think I'm screwing with enough stuff, I'd better leave well enough alone! Although, my tabs are just tacked on right now, and I could easily rotate them down to lower the RC. Hmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S15 200sx owner Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 More nice work Jamie! Your car will be an awesome piece of kit when finished! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Modified 300ZXTT hub. Not really modified, just drilled the stud holes out to fit 1/2" ARP studs. I hit them with alittle black Hammerite paint to keep them from getting nasty later. I'm gonna leave the "Gettin' Nasty" to when I drive the car! Edit: I have the subframe in the car for a final test fit before finish welding and powdercoating. The diff is the heaviest freakin diff I have ever lifted. I absolutely hate lifting it. The diff must be in the subframe before it goes in the car which kinda sucks but it's not that bad. No pics right now. I haven't had time, and now it's dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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